Mickguard Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 My recent experience with the Valve Junior has convinced me that I have to have a low-watt tube amp. I've been looking around though, and I'm not really finding something interesting--at least in the price range I'm looking at right now. I stumbled across the AX84.com kit thing...here's a link to the forum and here's a link to the kit sales page. So I started wondering...how difficult would it be to put together one of these kits? Why not make my own? I already have the cabinet (that would actually be the most difficult part to build for me!)-- an old transistor amp I had here. The cabinet's in great shape and the perfect size for one of these kits. I'm obviously looking at one of the beginner level kits --although I'd like one even simpler (i.e., no EQ). So has anyone else tried this? How difficult is it really? How can I build up the skills I'd need to make one of these (I can solder, of course...but maybe I should start by practicing on some entry-level kits...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 If your confident with your soldering capabilities and your ok with working with high voltages than the P1 is extremely easy to do. You can put it together via this layout (warning .pdf) and you don't even need to know how to read a schematic. You can get all the parts you need in there kit. I did the research and the kit is only about $20 more expensive than buying all the parts seperate so I would just go for the kit for ease of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted September 26, 2005 Report Share Posted September 26, 2005 I found this place a while back, but I know nothing about amps. Could anyone tell me, other than tubes and a 'case', what else would I need for these? Ceriatone Amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted September 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 I was looking at the Ceriatone kits, but it seems to me the main thing you need for them is --instructions! I get the feeling they're really geared to people who are comfortable with this. The AX84 crowd seem really friendly --the guy who runs it (and who sells the kits) has been really helpful so far. It definitely makes more sense buying a kit--at least until you really know what you're doing. I'm wondering about the high voltage part-- at what point does that become risky? Is it just at the moment you plug it in for the first time? Otherwise, I can learn anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Well obviously you would have no risk of shock when building ther thing... It's when It doesnt work and you have to take it apart that you run into some dangerous problems. You MUST discharge the filter caps or you could wind up in a coffin with the wrong move. Basicly if you keep your head on your shoulders and think logicly you won't be in any danger. That said, I wouldn't attempt a tube amp project (still havnt built one yet) without a competent electronics guy who knows about high voltages there helping me. Luckally for me my dad was an electronics guy in the air force and knows all about building circuts and high voltages and the like. So basicly as soon as I have $300 to spend I'm going to make the P1 Extreme (the only diffrence is the extreme lets you use octal based output tubes) I would recomend you read ever bit of literaature you can find if you don't know what I ment by octal power tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted September 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Yeah, the Extreme is the one I'm interested in... There's also a project amp group here in France (looks like their kit is based on the Fender Champ)...I might go for that one, since it's closer to home...but I prefer instructions in English. I don't know any electronics whiz, though...I'll have to ask around, maybe I'll find some hidden geek type ...I figure I'll get my feet wet building a pedal or something like that, if I can find a kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 I've been doing a lot of research before building my own amp. I'm planning on doing the P1 as soon as soccer season is over, since it looks nice and simple. As far as when the amp becomes dangerous, it becomes dangerous as soon as you power it up and the capacitors become charged. There's enough stored voltage in them to cause the heart to flutter, which is bad news. Here are some links that might be of interest to you, including one on tube amp safety. Tube amp building/owning safety. Kevin O'Connor's tube amp books. Amplifier Chassis Pics for when you want to go beyond the projects on the web. A whole slew of schematics to use with the ACP link above. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted September 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Excellent, just what I've been looking for....thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 No problem. Just sharing as others have. GBT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 Heh heh... I can't help it, I'm a learning machine... I picked up one of those starter electronics kit --gives me a soldering iron and base and a couple of simple beginner kits... I figure I'll do a few of those over the next few months, until I feel ready to tackle an actual amp kit. Because I'm probably going to want to build something more advanced --like a switchable 6/15 amp with footswitchable tube tremelo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted October 8, 2005 Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 I'm about to build a Trainwreck Climax from a kit... I've already paid for it, and they're putting it together and will be shipping it soon (from Kendrick, who made the original). It comes with the chassis (the metal bit that holds the electronics) with all the components mounted on a Garolite board but nothing wired up. It's NOT CHEAP - but it's A LOT less expensive than the original, assembled version that was $4000. Plus, you get Kendrick's absolutely top-notch transformers, which are one thing a lot of kits don't include at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 I'm about to build a Trainwreck Climax from a kit... I've already paid for it, and they're putting it together and will be shipping it soon (from Kendrick, who made the original). It comes with the chassis (the metal bit that holds the electronics) with all the components mounted on a Garolite board but nothing wired up. It's NOT CHEAP - but it's A LOT less expensive than the original, assembled version that was $4000. Plus, you get Kendrick's absolutely top-notch transformers, which are one thing a lot of kits don't include at all. ← I didn't see that one...they had another kit up though ---$995 with no speakers, tubes, or cabinet! For that price, I'd just buy myself an AC-15 and live happily ever after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 9, 2005 Report Share Posted October 9, 2005 Idch, there's no point in trying to save money by building your own amp - if you're happy with an AC15, you should buy one. However, if you want something a little different, or you're after one of those mythical beasts that were only produced on Wednesday, June 15, 1979, between 11:00AM and 3:00PM EDT, you really don't have much choice, unless you've got an unlimited budget. My goal is a 4 channel footswitching amp with dual tonestacks and about a 2-3 watt output, for recording and miking, with the gain structure ranging from Fender to Bogner, and there's no way any manufacturer will ever be crazy enough to build anything like that for a price I can afford! If I wanted a Marshall, I'd just buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I'm about to build a Trainwreck Climax from a kit... I've already paid for it, and they're putting it together and will be shipping it soon (from Kendrick, who made the original). It comes with the chassis (the metal bit that holds the electronics) with all the components mounted on a Garolite board but nothing wired up. It's NOT CHEAP - but it's A LOT less expensive than the original, assembled version that was $4000. Plus, you get Kendrick's absolutely top-notch transformers, which are one thing a lot of kits don't include at all. ← I didn't see that one...they had another kit up though ---$995 with no speakers, tubes, or cabinet! For that price, I'd just buy myself an AC-15 and live happily ever after ← That's the one... keep in mind that the original was a limited run of only 100 amps (which is why they changed the name for the kit) with a price tag of $4000 each . Also, the original speakers were two 10" Fane Alnico speakers - at $225 a pop. Speakers like that don't get included in kits . I got the chance to play on one about a year ago, and out of all the amps I've ever played it's my favorite. I was afraid they were going to stop making the kits, so I went ahead and bought one before I'd be stuck looking for one of the VERY limited run (they've sold about 250 of the Joy Zee kits in addition to the 100 complete Climax amps). It also comes with a three-ring binder full of step-by-step photographs and descriptions of the wiring of the amp as well as schematics and photographs of the completed wiring. Gerald Weber is in charge over there these days, I think, or at least he's the guy I spoke to about it, and he was really helpful - the original amp only had reverb on the "American" channel, and after I asked about it, Gerald offered to draw up mod plans for me and toss in the extra required parts to use reverb on both channels. When all is said and done, I'll still have paid less than half of the original sticker price of an amp that I love and might never get a chance to purchase - so to me, it's a good deal. If I could just go out and buy one, I would - but the last (and only) one I've seen for sale was tagged at about $3500 and at the time I couldn't afford it (I still wouldn't be able to justify it, but the kit with all the hardware is running about what I was going to pay for my next amp anyway). That may or may not make sense... but it's this specific amp that I've been after for a long time, and this is the only good way to get one now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Idch, there's no point in trying to save money by building your own amp - if you're happy with an AC15, you should buy one. ← Well, this isn't really about money. It's about this photo: It may seem strange, but when I saw this (the innards of one of the new Marshall handwired amps), I was just blown away by the sheer beauty of it...and since that array gets hidden away inside the amp, the only way I'd get to see it would be if I built it myself I've got plenty of time to decide on the type of specs I'll want for my amp, while I'm learning about it. I'm looking for a good beginners electronics book, eventually one about building amps too. In the meantime, I'm waiting for the new Valve Junior to get here...probably my first amp project will be modifying that to get rid of the noise and learn a little at the same time. Oh yeah, here's a question: I just read a method of discharging the voltage from an amp --you're supposed to simply unplug the amp while you're still strumming --not turning it off at the switch. That's supposed to reduce the voltage to less than 20 volts...is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 It usually works, but I'd still be cautious unless there's a bleeder resistor built into the power supply. It's always safer to deliberately discharge those caps ( and keep them shorted to ground until you get ready to power up again). Read the following: A capacitor was shorted out to bleed it down, unsoldered, and removed from the circuit. The short was removed in the unsoldering process, a thing called dielectric adsorption brought that capacitor all the way back up to it's original voltage. Leave bleeder resistors on the capacitors at all times. Use two parallel bleeders if the capacitor voltage is over forty volts. A bias resistor for a CCS or power-on LED in the circuit can sometimes be the second resistor (neon bulbs don't work for this, the voltage drop is too high). Not every capacitor will come significantly back up in voltage; however, be careful, it ain't worth getting hurt! This really is a problem. I survived the shock (450V). I said Ouch and I think it adversely affected my grammar. Now for the last 20 years, I put a pair of jumper clips across the capacitor(s) when soldering operations disconnect the capacitor(s) from the bleeders. On some capacitors, I solder a wire or resistor between the + and the - after I take it out of a circuit. FWIW, most tube amp mishaps aren't fatal, but even a few deaths is too many - be careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 I found this guy in the UK. http://www.ampmaker.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 FWIW, most tube amp mishaps aren't fatal, but even a few deaths is too many - be careful! ← Not to worry, I'm an extremely cautious type! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 My goal is a 4 channel footswitching amp with dual tonestacks and about a 2-3 watt output, for recording and miking, with the gain structure ranging from Fender to Bogner, and there's no way any manufacturer will ever be crazy enough to build anything like that for a price I can afford! If I wanted a Marshall, I'd just buy one! Sounds perfect. Sign me up for your mailing list! Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) My goal is a 4 channel footswitching amp with dual tonestacks and about a 2-3 watt output, for recording and miking, with the gain structure ranging from Fender to Bogner, and there's no way any manufacturer will ever be crazy enough to build anything like that for a price I can afford! If I wanted a Marshall, I'd just buy one! Whats interesting is no manufacture would make something like that because it's to "specialized". But just about every guitar player I know would start drooling if they saw an amp like that. If a company could make one like that for a reasonable price they would sell them like crazy. Edited October 11, 2005 by Godin SD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTexas Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 My goal is a 4 channel footswitching amp with dual tonestacks and about a 2-3 watt output, for recording and miking, with the gain structure ranging from Fender to Bogner, and there's no way any manufacturer will ever be crazy enough to build anything like that for a price I can afford! If I wanted a Marshall, I'd just buy one! Whats interesting is no manufacture would make something like that because it's to "specialized". But just about every guitar player I know would start drooling if they saw an amp like that. If a company could make one like that for a reasonable price they would sell them like crazy. ← I think that's the problem though. Such a specialized piece of gear would probably demand a premium because they likely wouldn't seel enough to make it worth it as a production amp, so it would be outside the range of most "mortals" who don't play professionally. Of course, if you understand the technology and the concepts, you can DIY. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the finer points of tube amps. GBT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I guess you could call it specialized... but it's only really specialized in that it's not loud enough to gig without micing. In terms of sound, it'd be the most unspecialized amp in the history of the electric guitar . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The problem isn't so much specialization as it is price pointing - since everybody "knows" that a 100watt amp is twice as expensive as a 50watt (or pretty close anyway), and manufacturers have been pricing that way for years, they'd find it almost impossible to sell a low watt amp at a profit. Who'd be willing to spend the price of a JCM800 for a 2 watt amp, even though it would probably cost more to produce? You all know the attitude - "Dude, a 30 watt amp? Isn't that a practice amp?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 My goal is a 4 channel footswitching amp with dual tonestacks and about a 2-3 watt output, for recording and miking, with the gain structure ranging from Fender to Bogner, and there's no way any manufacturer will ever be crazy enough to build anything like that for a price I can afford! If I wanted a Marshall, I'd just buy one! That would be perfect for me. Every sound imaginable. I always play miked anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The problem isn't so much specialization as it is price pointing - since everybody "knows" that a 100watt amp is twice as expensive as a 50watt (or pretty close anyway), and manufacturers have been pricing that way for years, they'd find it almost impossible to sell a low watt amp at a profit. Who'd be willing to spend the price of a JCM800 for a 2 watt amp, even though it would probably cost more to produce? You all know the attitude - "Dude, a 30 watt amp? Isn't that a practice amp?" ← Heh. I love it when that happens. I imagine with the right marketing and spokespeople it could be done, though - there's just never been a point because most amp makers' low powered amps are just cut down (and thus cheaper to produce) versions of their high power amps, or vice versa, so there was never any reason to market the low-powered amps and no reason for them to be as expensive as their higher-powered bretheren. Or you could sell the 2-5 watt version for $2000 and a 50 watt version for $5000 . (Or $5000 and $10000, or whatever). There's a saying in hifi audio equipment - if you price it high enough, people will buy it. Heh. Even if they didn't buy the high-power version, it would give them a price-reference for the low-power version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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