Jivin Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi Guys, My parts-o-caster is defintely been through the wars lately and has a bunch of problems that I really need to fix before its ready to hit the streets again, so I decided to take this oppurtunity to reforge it into something new... something better Now, I will be getting my body and neck from warmoth most likely, but I wouldn't mind a bit of advice regarding woods. I am in love with the look of this extra light mahogany/flamed koa strat body they have in their showcase, however I know that mahogany isn't a wood usually used for a typical strat. Problem is, I have decided on keeping it all natural gloss, but I don't particularily like the look of a 1/8" laminated koa top over an alder body, so I thought this might be a good chance to step outside the box a litte bit if I stay smart with my selection of woods for the neck. I am not worried about having a totally classic strat sound, but I don't want to end up with something completely and utterly different either. That said, I am after something that can still satisfy in a semi-aggressive blues style... I dont mind having something a bit warmer after coming from a fairly standard strat setup with a full maple neck/fingerboard (and a squire body I beleive is alder, but i could be wrong), but I don't want it to be devoid of that beautiful bitey tone that I love in that style of music. I would love some input or suggestions, but my main question is, if I was to go with this extra light mahogany/flamed koa body, would I be best to go with a full maple neck again to go some ways towards balancing out the sound? Its not essential, but I wouldn't mind a darker fingerboard if I can get away with it. I have read that Pau Ferro as a fingerboard is brighter than rosewood? Perhaps there is a completely different wood I could try for the neck altogether? If it helps at all I have decided on using high quality matched set of Kinman AVn Woodstock regular singe coils and I think I am going to opt for stainless steel frets as well. I know this isnt an exact science or anything... but I am keen to get a bit of input from some people with more knowledge than I Maybe I am just being too finicky and the difference in tone from just the fingerboard/neck alone wont be enough to even partially balance out the sound of an all mahogany body, but thats why I am posting here Thanks in advance! - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 A Mahogony/Koa body is simply not going to sound Fendery much at all. There just ain't no twang in Mahogony, it is what it is. If you want to buy this body, then work to it's strengths, don't try to twist it into something it will never be, that's where you will come up dissapointed. I would probably go P-90's or mini-hums in it, probably only 2 not 3, but that's just my opinion. Let me put it like this: if you took a list of ingredients to make a soup and put that batch of goods in front of someone who didn't know how to toast bread, and then also put that same list in front of a world class chef, then it will become obvious that the batch of goods themselves are really nothing, that there is an art to putting these things together to actually make a great soup, or in our case, a great guitar. Far too often I see people here coming to pre-conclusions about the sound of a guitar by just adjusting the raw ingredients without really knowing how to put it all together, that's where the art and experience comes into play. That's why I laugh when I read about someone wanting to make a full guitar out of quilted maple or something, they either have NO IDEA AT ALL HOW TO COOK, or are just fooling themselves. Those people should just take a seat at the table and let someone else do the cooking for them. By using a pretty wood body full well knowing it won't SOUND like the sound you're shooting for but trying to pull it that way anyway is a classic mistake, you are fooling yourself by not seeing the truth of the woods right in front of you, so admit that 'it is what it is', and adjust your tonal tastes to suit if it works for you. In other words, you can't take the ingredients for clam chowder and make chile out of it simply by adding some cayenne pepper, you ain't gonna get chile out of that. That's what the art of making guitars is all about, learning how to cook, and you don't get that by thinking if you buy the right fancy/pretty ingredients, you will become a great chef, it don't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 That's why I laugh when I read about someone wanting to make a full guitar out of quilted maple or something, they either have NO IDEA AT ALL HOW TO COOK, or are just fooling themselves. Those people should just take a seat at the table and let someone else do the cooking for them. ← Or they really dig Goerge Lynch, and Randy Rhoads's, tone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemm012 Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) Ebony has an even brighter tone than maple. That may be worth checking out for your fingerboatd. Galen. Edited November 5, 2005 by Gemm012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Thanks for your input Drak, however I think maybe you've gotten slightly the wrong impression Not your fault at all, but it was probably more that my post was a bit vauge and silly because I was not sure of what I needed to ask and how relevant it was in the end. I should make it pretty clear that my ears or hands are not all that fine tuned to the nuances of a classic strat, so my expectations are not going to be all that finicky or precise. It is just one of those things that is fairly personal, so its hard for me to accurately convey what I am after with regards to sound. I am aware that there are a lot of factors that go into making a guitar sound the way it does, and I am aware its not a science, however in the here and now I am trying to figure out if having a mahogany body with a maple neck is going to stop me from getting any semblance of a 'texas blues'ey SORT of sound. Knowing there is plethora of other variables involved, even I don't need to ask here to know that a mahogany body wont sound like a Fender strat, but since I none of you really know what exactly it is I want and what I will be happy with then I can fully understand your response I have had a bit of a chat with Perry, and seeing as he has a reasonable idea of what I am like he has me thinking that I will probably be satisfied with the mahogany body and maple/ebony neck along with the kinman woodstock set of pickups. I don't want to open up a can of beans at all, but he also said there is a possibility that being an extra light mahogany body perhaps it -may- lack of bit of boomyness relative to some other peices. Just a possibility, and not something I would bank on, but it may end up playing part. So yeah, I am not trying to find out if I can twist a mahogany body into a classic 70's strat by changing the neck wood, but moreso if the Mahogany body will completely stop me from getting a biting blues tone so much to the extent I should just expel the idea, regardless of what neck/pickups I choose. *takes a breath* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Really for strat tone, I'd stick with Alder for a 60's sound, swamp ash for a 50's sound, or hard ash for a 70's sound (basically). Now if you just want a strat shaped guitar, I'd go with the mahogany body and choose p90's or humbuckers like Drak suggested. But I can't say for sure, as I've never played a mahogany body with Fender type single coils in it that I can remember (and I've been playing guitar for 17 years now, there must be a reason for this lack of mahogany body/single coil guitars?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Why not try Swamp Ash, it's light like you want, plus has a warmer Fender type tone on a Strat built guitar. You can get some killer blues tone out of it. Now if you go with the Mahogany/Koa guitar and are not happy with the sound and you used a standard strat wiring you might want to use higher value pots(500k) for your volume and tones. That will add some brightness to your sound. Also, try different cap and resistor values until you get a sound your happy with. Like Drak said, it's like mixing ingredients until you find what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 I think you are still going to have scale=Strat,Neck=Strat, Electronics=Strat, body=slightly warmer (alder to mahog). Overall I think it would be a tweak on the Strats overall tone (not re-inventing the sound). I am not a Fender nut though (No sacred cows here). So its just my 2 cents. Peace,Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Thanks for all your input! I am not a huge fender nut either Rich, so like I had said, I probably won't notice the subtleties much... which is why I was trying to find out if people thought the difference would be overwhelming. GuitarFrenzy: Thanks for the suggestion, but perhaps one thing I didn't quite make clear was that if possible i would like something that I can just get all in clear gloss for simplicity. Warmoth just put 1/8" tops on as a visual thing really, and when the top is Koa like I am after they clash with pale woods a bit and its a look that doesn't do much for me. With mahogany however, the koa meshes fairly well though, which is why when I saw this extra light mahogany body with the koa top I thought it might be worth a shot. I got in contact with a few blokes who have built mahogany bodied strats with maple necks before and they had great things to say about them. Both were using the same tremolo I plan on using and both had Rio Grande tallboys installed. The general feel from both was that it was definitely a bit warmer, but still retained the overall snap, which they also attributed to a pickups a bit - no suprise there. I'm very pleased to have had a chance to get that sort of information beforehand! - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 As far as a good blues guitar, your body would do fine indeed, you can play blues on damn near anything with strings on it. As they say, blues is in the hands and heart, not in the wood. Just not overtly Fender sounding. I would still repeat the fact of 'play to the strengths of the body wood you choose to use' to get the most out of your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 when the top is Koa like I am after they clash with pale woods a bit and its a look that doesn't do much for me Some folks like the contrasting look of light and dark woods. To each his own. If you can, see if you can get some sound samples of the guys' guitars you've been talking to. We just want to make sure you are going to be happy with the guitar you end up with. FWIW, Alder is one of the easiest to finish woods. Mahogany and Ash are both large-pored woods (compared to alder or maple). They will take grain filling and leveling. Many times, you can skip this with alder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted November 5, 2005 Report Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi Guys, My parts-o-caster is defintely been through the wars lately and has a bunch of problems that I really need to fix before its ready to hit the streets again, so I decided to take this oppurtunity to reforge it into something new... something better Now, I will be getting my body and neck from warmoth most likely, but I wouldn't mind a bit of advice regarding woods. ← So, if I read this right, you *have* a strat (which usually consists of a body and neck), and you want to "reforge" this same strat by buying a body and neck from Warmoth ? As far as it being through a war, I strongly suggest that if you are going to keep it in the same room as the W.O.M.D., you give it a chance to defend itself. Hide it under some pillows, so it can be like Bin Laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I was going to suggest exactly what Perry said...maple neck & ebony board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 So, if I read this right, you *have* a strat (which usually consists of a body and neck), and you want to "reforge" this same strat by buying a body and neck from Warmoth ? As far as it being through a war, I strongly suggest that if you are going to keep it in the same room as the W.O.M.D., you give it a chance to defend itself. Hide it under some pillows, so it can be like Bin Laden. ← Haha, yeah well that comment was a little tounge in cheek I have a strat that I have been using which I put together out of a bunch of parts I had around, and it has done the job until now, but its really beaten up and was never that great to begin with. By reforge I mean... I only have the desire to have one strat to do my blues thing, and that will be my 'strat'... so even if i bought all new parts and didnt use a thing out of my old one, it would still be my 'strat' Messed up I know, but thats just the way I see my guitars And yeah don't worry, the camo is here to hold the fort, it won't attack one of his its own soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 camo has its own adjenda, and no orders you give it will over-rule the strict code of warfare it was lovingly programmed with. Beware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Thats what they said in the terminator as well I am John Connor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 The combination of wood you choose here is not going to sound anything strat like. As posted by Drak, you can get nice blues sounds out of it, or any guitar as long as you can play the blues. Most prominent players either use Fender of some mahogany guitar (Gibson) as their main axe. My last strat was a one piece mahogany, with a maple neck with ebony fret board, just like what you are asking for... the Koa top (1/8") I seriously doubt it will have any impression on the overall sound of a guitar. The guitar sounds great, darker than the limba epi LP I got I must say, and the scale is 25.5 which tends to be a bit brighter than the 24.75 Epi. This is by judging the sound of the bridge pup only, since both got 81's there, the strat got a 60 on the bridge, and I love the sound I get from it! Clean is bassy, and distorted just sings with clear distortion, not overly bright like the 85 or 81 do. With passive pups it will be a whole different beast! I still don't know why will you buy a Warmoth body, when it is much simpler to make a regular strat shape guitar! I do understand the neck, since I'm starting to swim in those waters right now! If you want, soemthing you can do if you still want the strat sound and the koa top, is to have it from alder (which can be stained with no problem a nice dark brown) or ash like posted by Matt and grain fill it black, and spray a brown toner coat to your taste, then just clear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 Thanks for your post Maiden, I don't think I ever said that I thought the koa would make a difference to the tone, in fact I think I even stated that I was aware that warmoth only put the 1/8" laminations on the top for the visual benefit I am no stranger to playing the blues, so I am sure that I won't be unhappy with this guitar and I will love playing it regardless, however as I have said there was some more specific tonal quirks (like a bit of bite) I quite like out of my crappy strat and I was only posting so I could get some opinions on whether or not having a mahogany body would completely stop me from getting that, even with quite bitey higher output single coils. I am fully aware that it will not sound like a strat... so although I really do appreciate people offering up some help, there is no need to keep posting that. As of right now I am thinking I will go ahead with this with the mahogany/maple/ebony. After talking to a lot of different people I feel comfortable that with the single coils and the maple/ebony neck the guitar will still have enough bite to satisfy me, and aside from that I am quite looking forward to utilising some of the extra warmth the mahogany will add in some slightly different blues stuff. And regarding why I am buying the stuff from warmoth? I would love to be able to build and finish my own guitar, but its just not something I have the time, money or resources to do right now, or any time in the near future. I am fully aware that I am part of a minority here at PG who don't come here to learn about building a guitar from scratch, but instead I have learn a wealth of other things about the more technical side of the guitar. Right now between working my normal job, studying full time and operating as a freelance web designer I am stretched thin as could be for time, and between keeping my normal gear up to snuff, paying the bills and spending money on my better half I sure as hell dont have the money to invest in even the simple tools that I dont have (almost all of them). I think it goes without saying that if I need a fancyish guitar for gigging I would be pretty silly to assume I can jump in and build a bulletproof guitar in my first go No... for now I will leave it to the pro's - I need quality gear Thanks all though, this thread has definitely been a help - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I guess I'm stupid and don't understand the reason for this post. Why would you ask us our opinion about the koa and mahogany guitar, when it's obvious your going to buy it anyway?.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 I agree. The purchase was a forgone conclusion and only advice you already agreed with was taken. I hope you like your new guitar and I'm sure it will sound fine. Maybe you can post some sound clips of it when you are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted November 6, 2005 Report Share Posted November 6, 2005 How about having Perry fix up the old partscaster ? If I can turn "back-up" instruments into a player's #1, he can too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I'll be assembling the new one for him, and giving it the Ormsbatouch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I'm sure that's gotta be better than giving it an Ormsbadouche, or an Ormsbastache, or an Ormsbadectomy, or putting it under the Ormsbascope Spectrolator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted November 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 I agree. The purchase was a forgone conclusion and only advice you already agreed with was taken. I hope you like your new guitar and I'm sure it will sound fine. Maybe you can post some sound clips of it when you are done. ← Well, I will admit I did a horribly job trying to ask my question, but please don't make out like ive just ignored all of the advice you guys have given. I appreciate anyone who has tried to help, however no-one really answered the question I was trying to ask. Sure that may have been my fault in not making my query clear enough, but yeah, in general all most people said was that a strat with a mahogany body wont sound like a strat and that I shouldn't try and create a strat sound if im not willing to use the classic strat materials. That sounds like really good advice, only it doesn't answer my question, and I have understood from the beginning that a mahogany body wouldn't make for a classic strat sound and I have also been willing to appreciate the benefits of that too. I COULD try and explain what I am after again, and if i managed to pull it off maybe it would make more sense, but I have already had a chat to Perry about it since starting the thread, and since in conversation it was easier to convey what it was I wanted to know, he helped me make a decision, which turned out to be what I had hoped from the beginning. Just because I didn't ditch the idea of the mahogany body doesn't mean the thread wasnt useful to me. There were some great posts that made a lot of sense and helped me out, but there were also some posts that made sense, but didn't quite get where I was coming from. I want this mahogany body and I understand it won't be a typical strat. I like the idea of having something warmer than a traditional strat and I am fully prepared to work with that angle, however I still was hoping to use some fairly snappy single coils, and I was just trying to find out if the mahogany would stop me from getting any bite at all, even when I dig in with the single coils. Thats it! I apologise if I have seemed ungrateful for any input people have had, but its just that telling me it wont sound like a typcical strat or that Alder or Swamp Ash are the ideal woods for a typical strat sound doesnt really help me much No hard feelings - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted November 7, 2005 Report Share Posted November 7, 2005 but I have already had a chat to Perry about it since starting the thread, and since in conversation it was easier to convey what it was I wanted to know, he helped me make a decision, which turned out to be what I had hoped from the beginning. If it were me, and it wasn't, I would have just discussed it with Perry first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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