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Where Can I Buy Poly?


tasty
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Hello Everyone,

Just ran out and got a 26 gallon, hp compressor with all the goodies (spray gun, grav fed spray gun, impact wrench, air ratchet, grease gun (ill never use that) and air hammer. ...now if it only came with an "air guitar" lol.. I did some math quickly in my head about how much I spent on rattlecans for just this one project and almost had a heart attack! Buying paint/clear in regular tins and using your own spray equipment is WAY cheaper...duh!

But seriously, where on the internet can I buy PPG or similar 2 part polyurethane paints? Perhaps there is someone out there who would sell this stuff to guitar builders such as you and I?

I know its expensive, but I can't wait to see the results (brian of LGM guitars) seems to swear by the stuff!

Thanks

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Where do you live? Most towns have an auto body shop supply store. I have several near me. Get ready though, ppg clear is by no means "cheap." At least it isn't in my opinion. Although, no two part poly will be cheap. I use PPG as well. I think I paid nearly $75 for enough for my last project, but you'll end up with way more hardener than you need. I spray in a really hot climate, so I don't reduce the clear at all. Some would advise against that, but I've had nothing but good results.

peace,

russ

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I live in Connecticut. I see that its really cost-effective to get Nitro (say at stewmac) but now that I have the gun i was hoping I could get some poly...if only nitro didn't keep shrinking/turning yellow I would be totally satisfied. I have been doing some searching on the colortone waterbased lacquer, but still am not totally convinced its as good (deep looking) as nitro.

However, if i picked up some clear poly i know it would be expensive, but very lush and I would hopefully have some left over for clearcoating more guitar projects!

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If you dont know where to buy one of the most deadly and hardest to use paints available to mankind, whats makes you think you're ready to start getting frustrated??

PS Its JEREMY, not brian. Ask him what experience he has spraying poly, and how long it took to master it.

PPS Have you got an authorised spray booth facility, approved by your local health and safety, or whatever the government department in the USA is??

PPPS have you got a full body pressurised ventilation suit?? You'll need one if you dont want to die prematurely.

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He brings up a very valid point. You mentioned neither a ventilated spray booth nor a fresh air supply in the list of things you bought. Both are essential for spraying two packs. If I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider just spraying nitro. It's still a bit dangerous, but far less dangerous than two packs. Just look here for some inspiring results with nitro. What nitro loses in durability and drying time, it gains in the fact that it will age like all of the other vintage guitars you see, rather than chips and what not typical to two pack poly's.

By the way, when I said you wouldn't be saving any money by using poly, what I meant to say was "you won't be saving any money by using poly." When I said I spent $75 on the last guitar, I meant $75. All I had left was hardener. We're not trying to be mean here. We just want you to realize the serious health risks involved and the fact that you can get some pretty nice results with nitro, which is, of course, much cheaper than poly's.

peace,

russ

Edited by thegarehanman
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Thanks fellas,

I just wanted to know where I could buy some poly thats all. I do appreciate your warnings and concern for my safety thats for sure. Somehow I feel like im being scolded and am being told that i can't have what "the big boys" use. Thanks for the advice however I do sincerely appreciate it. :D

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That's not it at all. You certainly can have "what the big boys use." :D We just want you to realise what a serious health risk this stuff is. If you take the propper precautions(i.e. set up a ventilated spray booth, and use a positive air supply), you can use it. Otherwise, you're much better off going with something that's more health friendly. Welcome to the forum by the way. Trust me, we have your best interest in mind. Perry(rhoads56) just doesn't always seem to come across that way, but he means well.

peace,

russ

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You guys are great, seriously. Ever since I have found this forum a few months ago, it has propelled me to fine tune, refinish, and build my own guitars. So much valuable information and the people who wish to share it too! Such a rare breed.

I do believe that I will try to get a large quantity of clear nitro....i wish there was a place locally that sold it by the gallon? Sherwin Williams? Home Depot? Just the amount of money i have spent of Deft (works great btw) is a lot. Thanks for the welcome, and I will contribute what knowledge i have of anything to this wonderful resource for luthiers and us wannabee-luthiers (thats me)....

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To be honest. The first few times I sprayed two packs, I was using little more than an open room and a mask with organic vapor cartidges. I have yet to see any ill effects. Truthfully, the exposure was incredibly minimal. None the less, I have done my fair share of research and am in the process of assembling a spray booth with ventilation and a fresh air supply.

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I have yet to see any ill effects. Truthfully, the exposure was incredibly minimal.
That's probably what most people experience - however, since the effects of isocyanate exposure are nasty, cumulative and fairly permanent, unless you're a card-carrying member of the "Live fast, die young, and leave a pretty corpse" club, I'd strongly recommend only shooting 2-part polys using the necessary safety equipment. The reality is that there aren't a lot of old auto painters who are both healthy and careless. Given the choice, I know which group I'd want to be in! :D
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You don't necessarily die from isocynates...you die from the damge it causes your lungs. It inhibits the oxygen from transfering to your blood stream, effectively smothering you. Like they said it is cumulative. But if you smoke you're halfway there.

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I don't smoke. My parents did, they quit though. I actually consider myself fortunate to have had parents that smoked. They always smoked far away from the kids, so there was never 2nd hand smoke exposure, and the fact that they did it took away any urge to do it ourselves. Like I said, the exposure was minimal, but I've since taken propper precautions. Don't you guys read how much I advocate spray booths and fresh air supplies? Preaching to the choir here, kids. And as for you, perry, you're a much too capable debator to simply post an analogy; if you're going to ruffle our feathers, at least make it exciting. :D

peace,

russ

Edited by thegarehanman
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I used to work in the boat building/repair industry as a laborer, more or less. But I learned alot about the top coats used on those real expensive pleasure yachts. My job was just working on the fairing crew, sanding and filling hull, bulwarks, bulkheads etc. When it came time to spray the poly-resin top coat I conveniently managed to get myself laid off. The ventilation in the place was still getting sorted out so on the first day there was a heavy mist throughout the place that wasn't being evacuated. Also, my employer (a subcontractor for getting the hull faired) told me that there is NO filter you can wear that stops isocyanates, a proven carcinogenic.

One of the painters was telling me he took on a job to spray the interior of a high end sailboat. There was no ventilation provided so he just wore his SCUBA gear while doing the job. :D But thats it in a nutshell you basically need to wear a space suit to aviod sucking in isocyanates.

But I have to admit I can't think of ANY better topcoat for guitars, hard as rock and shines to a high gloss.

Edited by Southpa
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I don't smoke. My parents did, they quit though. I actually consider myself fortunate to have had parents that smoked. They always smoked far away from the kids, so there was never 2nd hand smoke exposure, and the fact that they did it took away any urge to do it ourselves. Like I said, the exposure was minimal, but I've since taken propper precautions. Don't you guys read how much I advocate spray booths and fresh air supplies? Preaching to the choir here, kids. And as for you, perry, you're a much too capable debator to simply post an analogy; if you're going to ruffle our feathers, at least make it exciting. :D

peace,

russ

Wasn't arguing or anything. Im guilty of spraying it without a respirator. Also guilty of getting it on my arms (that sticky tape like feeling on your arm hairs) and washed it off my arms with thinner. That being said do as we say not as I do.

Scuba gear is an idea but isocyanates can be absorbed through any mucus membranes. (e.g. eyes)

And also people need to keep in mind that ANY 2 part epoxy, filler etc. etc. contains isocyanates altho it is not as bad because it is not atomized in a spray.

I read on the PPG website that you can reduce the amount released in their clear by brushing it on rather than spraying it. Never seen anyone do that but it may not be a bad idea. Then level and buff it afterwards.

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Sorry if I sounded hostile. I just wanted to assure you that I'm pretty confident about my health. I'm not worried about the little exposure I had, and I have no plans to go back to those methods. Again, didn't mean to sound harsh there. Anyhow, I'm going to buy a positive air pressure system with a full hood for my booth. That combined with a full body suit will keep me isolated from the fumes fairly well. I don't know that brushing is really going to buy you that much. Two part clear self levels really well, but I've always found that it puts off quite a bit of fumes just sitting in the cup waiting to be sprayed. I'm pretty sure that epoxy primer is actually worse for your health than the clear.

Edited by thegarehanman
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I forget what is the average harding/dry time for nitro from when i spray till i can play?

When the nitro passes the "fingernail test." Generally can be from 3 days to a few weeks.....practical hardness after about 30 days, but you still want to be careful because the finish is soft during the first month or so. As you probably know it never stops curing...you can play after about a few days, but you shouldn't. There are plenty of horror stories of a perfect finish being ruined by guitar case fuzz because the person just couldn't wait. You should finish it, and forget about it for a month or two. Then sand, polish and enjoy. Nothing worse that f-ing up a guitar that 'had' a perfect finish because you were in a hurry.

Ben

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I just thought I should point out a 2 pot poly product called "Acrathane IF", its isocyanate free, so if you want to spray outside, you can probably get away with it. It is an industrial product though, and as I get it free, I have no clue as to the price, but I believe its several hundred dollars per litre, so for hobbying, not cheap, but you could try your local trade store for mistints. But in the long run, I'd consider it cheaper to just get the respratory gear and spray nitro.

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