G_urr_A Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 I've been having a bit of trouble with the EMG85 in one of my guitars being a bit muddy, due to too much bass. So what I'd like to have is a tone pot that instead of cutting highs, would cut lows. How would I achieve that? I thought maybe a variable length coil in series with a variable resistor shunting the signal to ground. Would that work? Are there better ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 put an eq on your amp.they are inexpensive(a good 12 band can be had for under $100)and they do alot more to shape your sound than most people give them credit for.the 85,although a bit more bassy than an 81,is generally not too muddy unless you play super fast speed ryhthms with the bass too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted August 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 Well, the problem is that I need the bass on my amp turned up to where it is now to get the sound that I want when using the 81 for leads, but then when I switch to the 85 and start playing rhythm, it sometimes gets a bit muddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 i think i see.you have the 85 at the neck?i use the 81 at bridge for rythm and the 85 at neck for leads.if you play rythm at the neck pickup it will be muddy.the 85 is a pretty good rythm pickup but only at bridge.are you playing metal?i assumed you were because of the pickup choice.if you are playing clean rythm on the 85 it will tend to muddy up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 i ran a search on your former posts but i couldn't find the info i need to help you out. so.. what type of music are you playing? what position has what pickup? how fast are you playing when it muddies up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted August 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Yep, metal. (Mainly stuff like Iced Earth, Megadeth, Children of Bodom, Pantera, Dimmu Borgir) 81 at the bridge an 85 at the neck 8-10 notes per second (if that's an understandable way of measuring speed...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 I find with my 85, if you just roll the volume back a bit, it's bloody lovely. Lovely bluesy tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 yep that's the problem.the neck pickup is not used for metal rythm.because it muddies up.use the 81 at bridge for metal rythm.that is what alot of those bands you mentioned use.plus slayer,metallica,and many,many others.bridge position is always used for metal rythm.for the leads take your pick.i like the 85 at neck for marty friedman type leads(intricate and melodic)while i prefer 81 at bridge for mustaine type leads(fast and brutal,with a sharp attack) it's not the pickup it is the position.now if you are playing clean then the neck pickup is a better position for it.don't be confused by those gibsons that say rythm and treble instead of neck and bridge.they are old fasioned and are talking about clean bluesy kind of stuff. i know a guy who prefers the neck pickup for metal rythm,but it just makes him sound sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted August 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Well, I need the 85, and I need to have it there, because the 81 at the bridge is exactly what I want for leads. If I could just get a small reduction of bass in the 85, it would be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 what i am trying to say is for metal rythm you must play bridge position.the 81 is great for rythm and lead both.just because emg lists it as a lead pickup does not mean it is no good for rythm.trust me dave mustaine,kerry king,dimebag darrel...ALL the metal guys play bridge position.i am a metal fanatic and have been seriously playing metal for over 12 years.i play slayer,megadeth,testament,pantera,etc.... and NONE of these guys would ever play their music on neck position.the sound is totally unacceptable because of the sloppy bottom end.the closer your pickup is to the bridge,the tighter the bottom end becomes. trust me on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roli Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 Yea, Wes totally right, if you're at high gains, you can't get clearly focused notes from the neck position, there's too much vibration of the strings for that, too large amplitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 27, 2003 Report Share Posted August 27, 2003 yeah amplitude that is the word i was looking for.the size of the reaction of the strings at that part of the guitar is larger.which creates the looser bass and muddy tone you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted August 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 But turning the bass on the amp down to 2 instead of 6 gives me beautiful tone with the 85 at the neck. But then the 81 sounds way too thin, even for leads. So if you guys could give me a schematic of a "bass-cutting" knob, I'd be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted August 28, 2003 Report Share Posted August 28, 2003 i am sorry i don't even know of anything like that.that's why i was trying to come up with an alternative.i wish i could help what is wrong with the rythm tone from the 81 at bridge?have you tried turning the bass up to around 8-10 with the 81.i don't take mine above about 6 but it sounds like you want a bassier tone.keep in mind alot of the thickness of tone you hear on megadeth and pantera cds is because of the bass guitar backing it up.they really don't run too much bass.mainly because too much bass kills the attack(the cutting type sound you hear on muted notes)and most metal guys(myself included)prefer attack over bass. but don't let me tell you how to get your sound.i am only suggesting things you may try. but don't disregard an eq.it can really alter the sound.you might find a setting which would give you what you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted August 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2003 Sorry if I sounded harsh, I've been a bit off lately.... As I have it now, the 81 sounds thin for rhythm, but with more bass, it looses it's biting attack (and the 85 becomes impossible to use). But I need the bassy sound from my guitar, as it's not very likely that I'll ever find a bassist living in my area. An EQ would be a good option if it either was toggleable (hmm... strange word...) or if it would fit into the electronics cavity of my KE3 (so I could have it only affecting the 85). Anyone have any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 why dont you just get a boss EQ pedal? Its foot swichable you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted September 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 There would be three problems with an EQ pedal. 1. Price (there should be some less expensive way of getting what I want) 2. Functionality (an EQ pedal gives me way more than I need) 3. Rig compatibility (an EQ pedal would be difficult for me to fit into my current setup) I was thinking that there would be a way of reversing a tone pot. A capacitor of a normal tone pot lets higher frequency AC through easier than lower frequency AC. A coil has pretty much the opposite properties, but AFAIK, varialbe length coils aren't availible in a format suitable to be built into a guitar. Does anyone have any suggestions on either a smooth bass-reduction "circuit" or a highpass filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 The only thing I couldd think of is Active circuitry All my guitars have got it(All westone thunders) and it great! But I'm a bassist so I'm more open to Ideas...I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted September 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 But I'm a bassist so I'm more open to Ideas...I guess... What's that supposed to mean? Yep, if there is no other solution (there must be... if it's soooo simple to take the highs out, there must be a simple way to take the lows out.... argh..), I guess I'll have to go for some onboard preamp/eq thingy, or just live with it. I just found a nice page with some simple circuits, but I'm a bit too tired right now to calculate what I'd need, but I'll have a look at it tomorrow or something, and if anyone's interested, I'll post my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 I've been visiting this forum for a few days. When I saw this thread, I registered because I knew I could be of some use here, being an electronics technician. You can cut some bass by simply placing a capacitor in series with your signal between your pickup and your volume pot. The exact value depends on the rest of your guitar's circuitry but the lower the value, the more bass will be cut. I would try around .002uF to begin with and adjust the value from there. If you want it to be variable, try placing this simple circuit between the pickup and the volume pot: Again the ideal values will depend on experimentation and your tastes. I tried this years ago on one of my guitars with passive pickups and it worked pretty well. I think it should work with active pickups, but I might be able to help more if I knew your wiring diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Hi Saber and welcome to the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atifman Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 *woops* didn't see second page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roli Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Wow Saber, now someone who knows all the answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roli Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 As I'm on topic, what about a band pass filter? Wouldn't it be nice to get some wah-like sounds? Or a twin-T filter... though that should be active circuit yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_urr_A Posted September 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Thanks a bunch Saber!!! That's exactly the type of thing I was looking for! And Welcome to the forums! The guitar in question has got a pair of EMGs (as mentioned) wired according to this diagram: 2EMG1vNoTone3wt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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