Advice On Detuning Up A Step

[Walt]

Hi Folks,

I am wondering about tuning my Talylor 210 up a half step of two. Anybody tried this? I alread play light guage strings. Go to extra-light? Go buy another guitar now because I am going to ruin this one?

Thanks,

Walt

[Drak]

Why don't you just use a Capo?

[Walt]

I don't like taking the easy way out. The difference in sonority. 210 is not a cutaway so I lose some neck that way. The dots get moved. The scale feels different (I play with my eyes closed a lot) But thanks anyway.

Why don't you just use a Capo?

[marksound]

Detuning up a step? That's like driving to Hawaii via Greenland.

Not taking the easy way out is too damn hard. Use a capo.

[Marzocchi705]

Ask yourself how often you use the upper frets of your guitar. i bet its not that often as you dont have a cutaway. Just use a capo, if you dont like it, maby go down a gauge and tune to a step higher.

[Walt]

Ask yourself how often you use the upper frets of your guitar. i bet its not that often as you dont have a cutaway. Just use a capo, if you dont like it, maby go down a gauge and tune to a step higher.

As I have several cutaways, I do spend some time up the neck. I have a few fingerstyle arrangements that take me to 15 and when acoustic shredding, I range up there too on occasion. Plus other factors mentioned earlier. Has anybody messed around with Nashville tuning?

[Drak]

Isn't Wild Horses by the Stones done on acoustic in Nashville tuning?

Maybe Sister Morphine, can"t remember which...

[Marzocchi705]

But on this guitar do you? thats the thing, you have a guitar where you can play up the neck like you said, why dont you have this one set up with a capo? or experiment using some lighter gauge strings? I find on an acoustic ligher strings make a hell of a differance (but i play with 13's on my acoustic so my opinion probibly isnt worth much). Only you can decide what the right thing is for you,

[Southpa]

I've tuned my guitar in numerous alternate and open tunings. In some cases a few strings have to be tuned up, like in Open E tuning. In your case its like asking us if you can ride a bike Well, you won't know until you try.

[Mattia]

I sincerely doubt most normal string sets can take tuning up that much. Some of them (unwound B strings, f'r isntance) are damn close to their breaking points already when tuned 'standard'. I don't really know much about nashville tuning, but we're talking different string sets there. It just might work, I'd use extra light strings for a first experiment (use an online string calculator to compare the tension; pretty much any factory guitar will take the amount of tension a set of mediums - 13s - provides without trouble). What is likely to be way, way, way, waaaaay off, though, is your intonation. Not adjustable, and if you can live with it, OK, but...if you want to tune up, build a shorter scale guitar, or use a capo.

I'd go with the capo option.

[Walt]

Hey Mattia,

Thanks for the input. You seem to have actually read my post! I never heard of an online string calculator before and will study the google hits. Intonation way, way, waaaaay off? Hadn't thought about that. Not good if I can't change the neck relief to offset that.

I would would love a shorter scale guitar - but not a realistic option at this time. I will try the extra lights on my spare dreadnaught and see what happens.

I sincerely doubt most normal string sets can take tuning up that much. Some of them (unwound B strings, f'r isntance) are damn close to their breaking points already when tuned 'standard'. I don't really know much about nashville tuning, but we're talking different string sets there. It just might work, I'd use extra light strings for a first experiment (use an online string calculator to compare the tension; pretty much any factory guitar will take the amount of tension a set of mediums - 13s - provides without trouble). What is likely to be way, way, way, waaaaay off, though, is your intonation. Not adjustable, and if you can live with it, OK, but...if you want to tune up, build a shorter scale guitar, or use a capo.

I'd go with the capo option.

[GregP]

I can't imagine Nashville tuning will deliver what you need. It's mostly used for texture in layered guitar parts and isn't particularly effective as a tuning for solo guitar.

There's nothing to gain from it in solo arrangements, and everything to lose.

I think going to a lighter guage and then tuning up is the way to go if you insist on not using a capo.

Greg

[SwedishLuthier]

Tuning up a half or whole note will not destroy your guitar. Like Southpa said, tuning in open E for slide and other stuff haven’t ruined any of my guitars. Let me also give you an example of how much detuning a guitar string can take. I have made this silly mistake one or two times:

Tuning a Strat or other six-in-line guitar I have reached for the g string (or any other) and thought that I was tuning the B! Of cause the string broke before I reached B but I got pretty close. I actually did the same thing with the A sting last week on an acoustic (I am old enough to know better). The string broke close to reaching D but the guitar held up to the extra stress. So there shouldn’t be any problem with the strings breaking either if you only detune a half or a whole step.

Ii would start by using the same gauge of strings. I have read a lot of things about the timbre of a guitar changing when tuning up or down. I actually have a dreadnought that is quite boring in standard tuning. When I drop both E-strings and the G-string to an open D–chord something changes in the guitar. It rings out much nicer and the tone starts to breath (hard to describe).

Nashville tuning is done by taking the “extra” strings from a 12-string set and tune them as you would on a 12-string. One thing you can do with a Nashville guitar while recording is to lay down a track in standard tuning. Back the tape (or the hard disk, I’m old-fashioned and still records on analogue tape). Sting up a guitar with the Nashville tuning AND INTONATE the guitar for those strings. Now double track the first take and you will have something that sound like a 12-string guitar that is actually intonated!!!

[Walt]

Thank you for the reply. I would like to know how you adjust the intonation. By adjusting the truss rod, I think of the string height, not intonation. I don't know what else I could do.

quote name='SwedishLuthier' date='Jul 6 2006, 10:49 AM' post='277550']

Tuning up a half or whole note will not destroy your guitar. Like Southpa said, tuning in open E for slide and other stuff haven’t ruined any of my guitars. Let me also give you an example of how much detuning a guitar string can take. I have made this silly mistake one or two times:

Tuning a Strat or other six-in-line guitar I have reached for the g string (or any other) and thought that I was tuning the B! Of cause the string broke before I reached B but I got pretty close. I actually did the same thing with the A sting last week on an acoustic (I am old enough to know better). The string broke close to reaching D but the guitar held up to the extra stress. So there shouldn’t be any problem with the strings breaking either if you only detune a half or a whole step.

Ii would start by using the same gauge of strings. I have read a lot of things about the timbre of a guitar changing when tuning up or down. I actually have a dreadnought that is quite boring in standard tuning. When I drop both E-strings and the G-string to an open D–chord something changes in the guitar. It rings out much nicer and the tone starts to breath (hard to describe).

Nashville tuning is done by taking the “extra” strings from a 12-string set and tune them as you would on a 12-string. One thing you can do with a Nashville guitar while recording is to lay down a track in standard tuning. Back the tape (or the hard disk, I’m old-fashioned and still records on analogue tape). Sting up a guitar with the Nashville tuning AND INTONATE the guitar for those strings. Now double track the first take and you will have something that sound like a 12-string guitar that is actually intonated!!!

[SwedishLuthier]

Ah, oh, well, I was thinking electric, sorry.

But it is possible to set up a guitar especially for Nashville tuning. To intonate an acoustic you have to alter the saddle or sometimes even the bridge to be able to move the saddle some.

[Walt]

Thanks for the clarification about intonating electrics and acoustics.

Thanks to all for the valuable input, everybody. I got my questions answered and will give it a try. I won't be checking back in on this topic anymore, but I am glad I found this site and look forward to future discussions.

Walt

Ah, oh, well, I was thinking electric, sorry.

But it is possible to set up a guitar especially for Nashville tuning. To intonate an acoustic you have to alter the saddle or sometimes even the bridge to be able to move the saddle some.