scottyd Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Ive been designing and building my own headless tuner setup. Now I know this has been done before and Im not claiming to be a pioneer. But I was severly distressed on my last bass project which i wanted to be headless but couldnt do because of the price of the tuners. Ive researched all of the other tuners and came up with something that uses a little bit of eachs design but beefed up. Now this is by no means complete and has not even been tested yet. the one in the pics is a prototype to test out. I hope to have all the details worked out by next week. I should have one mounted to tell how well they tune and what steps need to be done to make them better. Im thinking of making the tuner and bridge one piece and a locking device that will lock the string holder in place when the desired tune is achieved. Also this design will use regular strings not double ball (more later). The best part is these things can be made for about $1.50 in parts each. Tell me what you guys think. Broken down view another view (crummy pic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 scotty you are a man after my own heart!! i want to build a headless bass also, but can't afford the hardware. i'm trying to design my own as well, theres a thread (very old) somewhere, but i have had no time to keep at it. i'm assuming the threaded rod comes through the "tuning dial" (for want of a better term) part of the tuner?? good luck with your designing, hope you succeed. cheers darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielM Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 that is fabulous! great to see somebody making his own tuners! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logical Frank Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 That is one of the raddest things I've ever seen. It's always cool to take more of your designs into your won hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 i'm assuming the threaded rod comes through the "tuning dial" (for want of a better term) part of the tuner?? good luck with your designing, hope you succeed. cheers darren Yes sir you are correct, I plan on buiding a pipe like cover that will cover up the threads. Mostly because the thread is steel and the tuning knob is stainless steel so a small amount of lube or anti-seize will have to be used, and the exposed threads would get you dirty otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 scotty you've got me all excited, i'm going out to the shed and see if i can make my designs work. i have bought so much brass stock in varying sizes for this project, but have no mill so i need to do most by hand/power tools. i think this is one of the reasons my project has slowed down so much. cheers darren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Do you think they could be used for wee little guitar strings, too? Or at least in modified form? To be honest, I can't tell what the heck is going on there, but anyhoo... once it's been installed, I'll see what's goin' on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Trying to understand how the ball-end will stay in the recess. And wondering if the thread is fine enough for tuning purposes; recall that most bass tuning keys are something like 20:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Irizarry Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Do you think they could be used for wee little guitar strings, too? Or at least in modified form? To be honest, I can't tell what the heck is going on there, but anyhoo... once it's been installed, I'll see what's goin' on. This is too cool! I'm really excited to see this. I've been wondering about trying something like this as well. I'm just not quite at that point in my own build. This picture may help to clarify scottyd's work. Its one of several photos I took of my R tremolo when I decided to disassemble it a while back to better understand its workings. scottyd - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE continue to share your progress! Any details on how you went about making them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 That definitely helps, Robert, thanks. Somehow I didn't even notice the ball end being "held" in the original post. Now it's starting to become clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 Trying to understand how the ball-end will stay in the recess. And wondering if the thread is fine enough for tuning purposes; recall that most bass tuning keys are something like 20:1. The ball end and recess will be contained inside the hollow square tube (for lack of a better term) The 3rd pic shows how it should be once you start tuning it theres no way it'll come out. Good point on the threads, Ive put some thought that as well, simply put if these dont work it'll be time to hunt some finer threads. Im sure this will pull the string no problem, they are 32 pitch threads but as far as fine tuning Im not sure we'll see. Also it should be pointed out the 20:1 is a gear ratio (it takes 20 turns of the handle to move the post 1 turn) and this type setup does away with any gear ratio because its just a horizontal pull. So the measurements will be totally different. I did however detune a string on my 6er Ibanez and noticed it took 4 full turns which rotated the tuner about 1/8". On the homemade one it took 3 1/2 turns of the knob to move the string retainer in 1/8". You have a valid point none the less I just dont know the answer yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 I did however detune a string on my 6er Ibanez and noticed it took 4 full turns which rotated the tuner about 1/8". On the homemade one it took 3 1/2 turns of the knob to move the string retainer in 1/8". You have a valid point none the less I just dont know the answer yet Yep, that's what I was driving at. Sounds like you've got it nailed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 (edited) "scottyd - PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE continue to share your progress! Any details on how you went about making them?" Will do! Ill give out the full details when Im sure that they work properly. Thanks for that pic by the way, its cool to see one of those trems broken down. Edited September 16, 2006 by scottyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 (edited) The tuner worked great, I mounted it last night tuned up an E and a G string with and electronic tuner and it works flawless. Then I tuned an A string and left it overnight. It was still tuned perfect this morning! Now all i have to do is make 4 more to convert this thing. Its a fretless 5 string i built for a friend about a year ago. I will be making it headless, extending the upper horn, reshaping the lower horn, smoothing some spots out and fretting it. This thing was fairly neck heavy on account of the shorter horns. Edited September 17, 2006 by scottyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 What method will be used for the nut end of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 A clamping system kind of like a floyd rose, except seperate from the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-of-the-strings Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 So similar to those ol' floyded fenders you see with the clamp behind the nut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 yeah kinda like that, pretty basic. I dont want it intergrated with the nut because then id be limited to metal for nut material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Irizarry Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 yeah kinda like that, pretty basic. I dont want it intergrated with the nut because then id be limited to metal for nut material. One way would be to use a Kahler type behind the nut locking mechanism which would allow you to make the nut anything you like. Thanks for the update! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yeah im kinda leaning to just buying one of these from Status only 43 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Irizarry Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yeah im kinda leaning to just buying one of these from Status only 43 bucks Sounds great. Let me know if you can use additional pictures of the disassembled R-tremolo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted October 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2006 (edited) A little progress, Keep in mind this is somewhat of a prototype.I made the entire setup and for the most part I have mixed feelings with it. Being that its all hand made all the mounting holes and part sizes arent exactly the same mosty because there was some welding and grinding involved. The knobs in the photo arent big enough in diameter so you really have to crank down to get to the tuning. (they are made from an old 3/8" ratchet handle perhaps a 1/2drive would work better Bigger diameter knobs will fix that. Im also trying to come up with different ways to make them smoother. All of this set up was made with steel. The next one will be made of aluminum and more care will be taken to get everything more consistant. SO basically back to the drawing board! Top clamping device VERY UGLY! ANother VIew Edited October 8, 2006 by scottyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 A suggestion on the head. Here are two different ways for the "headless" head. http://www.basslab.de/OCT/GR/Instrumente/B...HL_FL_BLtop.jpg The picture is blurry, but imagine the head perfectly cut off, then a piece of metal is screwed onto the side. I believe the nut is also made out of this material. http://www.basslab.de/OCT/GR/Instrumente/B...res/LB-V_wh.jpg There isn't a shot dedicated to only the head, so this is as close as I could get. They're just pegs to hold the strings. There will be more weight from the extra wood and pegs, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as significant as a head with actual tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Thanks Jon, my design will be a lot more "pretty" when i work out all the kinks. SHould be alot slimmer and polished aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyd Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 (edited) I turned some new knobs on the metal lathe, they work a whole lot better. Also all the grooves will have orings in them. They do a great job giving grip. I cant decide if i want them in the vee shape or all the same length. Edited October 19, 2006 by scottyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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