psw Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sustain comes from the guitar's constuction...not from the pickups or the amp (unless created by feedback, including with a sustainer )... It could be a dud, but it could be fixable. If the neck joint is at fault a shim of some mass or strength (steel of carbon fibre or the like) and adding mass to the headstock can help (try clamping something to the headstock, a clamp for instance (with protection of course)... It's a shame, cause it is a nice looking guitar but not all is looks, flame maple does not necessarily create sustain, a lot is in the design... I take it with the same equipment you are getting ok sustain with your other guitar (the V) or others...so you could rule that out... If sustain is something that is a must, a sustainer (sustainiac, for instance) may be the go, but you might need a bit of modification to fit the switches, circuit and battery...that is the hidden cost there. On my sustainer guitar ( a very cheap hollowed out strat copy) it's lak of natural sustain is an asset...you can get short, sharp notes to literally infinite sustain...but then it is a feedback effect... good luck, certainly an interesting conundrum...what kind of sound are you searching for? pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Question - how does the guitar sustain *acoustically* without you plugging it in? Do open or fretted notes ring true or die prematurely? This would rule out an electrical problem. A cool trick to help point this out further is to play your guitar halfway up your stairs and rest the back of the body between a riser and treader, as that physical coupling naturally amplifies the sound :-D I wouldn't dig it against uncarpeted stairs though....I'll post a pic shortly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 You know what, I think you should take the guitar to another guitarist you know, leave it with him and ask him to play it for a couple of days. Don't tell him why, just tell him you have an issue, you want to see what he thinks about it. It should be a good guitarist. What I'm trying to rule out is that this is not some kind of 'guitar dysmorphia' syndrome, you know, like a lot of people get about their bodies, where they look in the mirror and can only find flaws. +10 I'd also see about having someone else play it at a gig and watch them play it. Given the similar issues you seem to be having with the V, I'd check with another guitarist. Sometimes my guitars feel like duds, and then I just sit down and practice and pretty soon they sound good again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 you know the adjustment poles in the p/u's? Well should the screws be, lets say, facing the front on the bridge p/u and facing the back on the neck p/u? Or it doesn't matter? Also this lack of note luster is really all over the neck... but notice it much more in the upper neck region. To answer your question above, I asked the guys at Dimarzio a while back. The answer was that it makes no difference, regardless of what the "tone experts" will tell you. Pickups It sounds like your pickups are a little close to the strings. 1/16" with the 17th fret depressed is a little low. Usually, that's the kind of reading you'd get when depressing the string at the 21st fret. Also, give yourself more room on the bass side as those strings vibrate wider and your sound may not be balanced - you already have 1/8" so you're OK on that side. Truss Rod You say you have 0.007" relief. Again, that's a little low. You'll need to dial in a little more relief in there. I usually have at least 0.009" on a 12" + radius guitar. You didn't say what string gauge you use. String gauge has a big impact on sustain. Two more questions: Is the sustain problem with a clean sound or dirty sound? Have a look at the bridge studs and try to see if everything is solidly mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganBoySB Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 (edited) Apologize for the delay in getting these up... http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kpasque/guitar1.jpg http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kpasque/guitar2.jpg http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kpasque/guitar3.jpg I'm making plans to send this off to Mark Arnquist (luthier in Seattle). I really took a hit with this purchase. I want to thankyou for taking the time to respond, always appreciate your input. Ken Edited November 28, 2006 by MichiganBoySB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Please link your pictures instead, as really you can only post one 640 x 480 max. picture per post. Just being the precursor to you getting a bollocking from a mod. Nice instrument! Bridge pickups a bit close to the strings though....!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Yeah, those pics are huge, the dialup guys are going to go nuts. Anyway, it looks to me like your neck angles up? It's hard to see-- maybe it's just the way the guitar is carved. Another thing, have you ever tried removing that neck pickup altogether? Just take it out and see how it plays. Then see how it plays with just the neck pickup in. You don't need to cut the cables, assuming there's enough wire to shift the pickups out of the way (maybe wrap them so they don't scratch anything). I'm just wondering if part of the sustain problem comes from magnetic interference from the pickups. Before you pack up the guitar and pour more bucks on it, you ought to try this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acousticraft Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 How old are your strings? Dead strings can have the sustain of fence wire, zero. Hey nice looking guitar, but what is that ugly red switch thing doing there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 tried turning that neck p/u around 180 degrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganBoySB Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Ok modified my post thx. No matter if they are new strings or old the "fence wire sustain" is still there. I'll try rotating my pickups 180 degrees to see what that'll do. That ugly button is a stutter/kill switch... I like Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Just rotate the neck pickup, and lower the bridge pickup. It looks way too close to the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Just rotate the neck pickup, and lower the bridge pickup. It looks way too close to the strings. Yeah, I was going to point that out too --looks like it's high enough to be a toaster pickup. Didn't someone already say that rotating the pup won't change much--or maybe he was just talking about the tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganBoySB Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Just rotate the neck pickup, and lower the bridge pickup. It looks way too close to the strings. Yeah, I was going to point that out too --looks like it's high enough to be a toaster pickup. Didn't someone already say that rotating the pup won't change much--or maybe he was just talking about the tone? BTW I use 10-46 DR's and the sound I admire would be of a man who goes by the name of "Buckethead". Now the earlier poster mentioned how he had asked Dimarzio if turning the pickups around makes any diff and they said it doesn't. I beg to differ cuz I had rotated the bridge p/u and was late going back to work cuz I couldn't stop jamming for 45 minutes. What was obvious is that the guitar cleaned up a whole lot. Besides the problem being mainly lack of sustain I had this other extremely unplayable kind of behaviour going on. And that was any "hand-swipage" or palm muting would clutter up the sound. Any rubbing, swiping, scraping etc... on the strings would just about be as loud as the ringing strings, know what I mean? Now you'll say "well thats cuz of your messy technique". But now its not a matter of it being a hinderance but rather an asset to the sound. Tonight I'll rotate the neck pickup and see what it does. Guess I'll leave you with this question... how do you think rotating these pickups could have changed my sound for the better? CYA, Ken ps: I ought to go the extra mile and post a video of my playing on Youtube for a further understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Just visited Ed Romans' website....What an asshole he seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Just visited Ed Romans' website....What an asshole he seems to be. He's Zachary Guitars' "funny" older uncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Didn't someone already say that rotating the pup won't change much That was me. I got it straight from the guys at DiMarzio. According to them. there is NO difference with regards to what side the pole pieces ar aside from the fact that one side is adjustable (on some models) and the other is not. The tech I spoke to basically said that the sound is identical regardless of the installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aidlook Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Didn't someone already say that rotating the pup won't change much That was me. I got it straight from the guys at DiMarzio. According to them. there is NO difference with regards to what side the pole pieces ar aside from the fact that one side is adjustable (on some models) and the other is not. The tech I spoke to basically said that the sound is identical regardless of the installation. I thought the coils where different...that one of them was just mainly for cancelling hum, and the other one for picking up the vibrations -and that that was the reason for that coil having adjustable pole pieces... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Sonically there is little to no difference. The pic above shows that the magnetic field is changed if like or unlike poles (that are attracted to one another, as in the first diagram) are opposite one another. I rotated my pickup in my LP at one stage but it had no real effect... The adjustable poles were added to the HB design as gibson wanted to allow for more adjustability as a bit of a marketing tool. I have never found them to make a lot of difference to string balance. The dual coils are wound reversed from one another and the magnets reversed as well, so both pickup the sound of the string...the hum which enters the coil is cancelled out by the other as it is not dependant upon the magnetic field...so the hum is cancelled but the strings vibrations add together. The distance between the coils (they are not in the same place along the string) will cause cancellations of some frequencies and gives the HB it's rounder tone over something like a single coil... Having the pickups set too close to the strings will disturb the ability of the strings to vibrate naturally, as will high powered magnets. In many ways, active low impedance pickups with lower magnetism like EMG's will give a "truer" sound. Pickups are not where you should look though to increase sustain. Pickups will only sense the vibrations of the strings, once the string stops vibrating, that's it. The "sustain" qualities of pickups relate to the power and ability to overdrive an amplifier, allowing for more distorted sustain and ability to get feedback and by causeing a clipped compression. A electronic sustaining device like I have been working on will make the strings vibrate infinitely in a controlled feedback loop. A compressor will bring up low signals if vibration is there. my 2c... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I just said to rotate the neck pickup because the screws weren't opposite the ones on the bridge pickup. Incredibly picky* of me, but stuff like that drives me nuts. *BTW, who turned on the language filter? I originally typed "****" but it was blocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 hahaha... I rotated the pickup because I had heard that peter greens LP sound found when he rotated his...in fact he cause a wiringing problem that caused it when he did the mod...so I wouldn't advise it generally. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I just said to rotate the neck pickup because the screws weren't opposite the ones on the bridge pickup. Incredibly picky* of me, but stuff like that drives me nuts. I didn't notice that. Good eye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 *BTW, who turned on the language filter? I originally typed "****" but it was blocked out. Can't resist...****? Holy crap, what do you know, a nal is a naughty word? Methinks there's a gremlin playing with the board again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 (edited) Having the pickups set too close to the strings will disturb the ability of the strings to vibrate naturally, as will high powered magnets. In many ways, active low impedance pickups with lower magnetism like EMG's will give a "truer" sound. Excellent summation! I find that EMGs are wonderful in their transparency and "unintrusiveness". On the other hand, they are also a little characterless in comparison with their organic quirky brothers :-D On a slightly off-topic sideline, I think the current marketing blurb talk for a "truer" sound is currently "hi-fi" making out that a semblance of realism, or lack of noise/distortion is inherent in active pickups. Misleading by analogy. In reality it's the build of passive pickups (strong magnets) that cause the problem as you explained! I wouldn't use "hi-fi" as an analogy of this difference. My analogy against hi-fi in a reversed vein would be using a flint as a needle on a record player. Okay, I'll say it before somebody else does: "what the hell are you on about, Carl?!" Edited November 30, 2006 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 hahaha... I rotated the pickup because I had heard that peter greens LP sound found when he rotated his...in fact he cause a wiringing problem that caused it when he did the mod...so I wouldn't advise it generally. pete Peter also flipped the magnet in his pickup. That gave him the out of phase sound when he used both pickups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 I rotated the pickup because I had heard that peter greens LP sound found when he rotated his... Peter also flipped the magnet in his pickup. That gave him the out of phase sound when he used both pickups. Ah...see, there is the mystery...flipping a magnet in a humbucker is the same as turning it around...hmmm pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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