Guitar Build Off...entrants Poll

[fryovanni]

anyone interested in a 'total friendly' build off?

basically not a race; but inside a certain time frame; no cncs; nothing that you already have every template for (personal production guitars) original designs; mostly (i know what im comfortable doing in the way of 'structure' and wouldnt vere entirely off) and maybe some PG VIPs would volenteer to scrutinize the builds?

but the main objective is documenting every step, which should also come into judgment; about how well you describe each step and why its being done (or why you think others ways are stoopid)

building instruments isnt a competition, but i think one round could be fun!

This is where it started. LEF asked for more input. It snowballed from there.

This poll was to test the level of interest and get feedback. Now if you have no interest there is no reason to move forward. We have interest. Part of this pole was to determine if entrants would be willing to commit a contribution of parts or materials for a pot(exactly what it will be used for we have not determined, but they are willing). Some have mentioned Tele, LP, PRS, Explorer as well as a few others(there is an element of feedback we were looking for in this pole). Lastly judging preferences. We have seen a common thread in the feedback(they trust Setch ). There does not seem to be any issue with the judges that people are suggesting.

Is it different than GOTM? Absolutely. Does it meet your litmus test as to being different enough? Dunno.. That will be determined as we move to the next phase of development. When the information being collected in this pole is used to shape the rules and regs for the event.

My point is that it was an idea, and no one really bounced it around to see if it would hold air, no one really put it up for scrutiny to see if it could actually be done properly at all before deciding to just go ahead and get it started.

Not true. The original discussion was closed because there was too much talk and discussion, and the thought was we needed to start polls to determine interest and collect feedback. We have not started the event. We are moving forward.

It is a good time to speak your peace, and since the other topic was closed this is the only place to do it. However kind of comment has no value other than to say you guys are idiots for wasting your time. It will never work.

My guess is that this will probably dry up and blow away soon. There just isn't the backbone support here to assemble a proper competition, and most entrants are so far apart from each other in skill levels to make it a -very- hard sell logistically, even on a good day

Please explain to me how that could be taken ANY other way, and keep in mind people who are saying they will participate are NOT taking issue with the judging staff.

I see no reason to look at the Carriburst thread for anything other than reference to potential issues. That was a different time, nobody but the members that signed on and did not follow through should take credit for its outcome. That lack of commitment bears NO reflection on Drak . It was just an effort to get some group participation happening in an event.

Wes, when this poll has run its course(I don't recall your time frame). I believe you are right that it should go to an off line discussion between all the judges that had been selected by participants(if they are willing to discuss this- none have commited of course to judging). Then it would be prudent to post the guidlines and rules, and have everyone re-affirm there entry with picture of material, drawing,template as suggested before. Since Setch seems to be the #1 choice by far I would suggest he chair that discussion(if he is willing).

Dang thats a lot of typing

Peace,Rich

[erikbojerik]

Drak hit it on the head. Central theme (one kind of guitar). And Wes makes an excellent point about having a common baseline by which to judge the contest. It actually puts everyone at the same starting line.

OK, y'all know which way I tilt on this one, based on my top-3. You can easily make a swamp ash flat-top Les Paul with a 6-inline bolt-on neck and a Tele bridge....

My point is that if someone decides "Les Paul" that doesn't mean you have to make it a carve top. Or a set neck. Etc. I think that's the point, see what you can do different and fresh with a tried and true design.

[AlGeeEater]

Drak, I think you took my post out of proportion. I wasn't attacking you or anything, just asking for some suggestions I guess.

Are you blind man? Reread my post above about what a basic guitar competion is, I can't make it any plainer than that.

I was just asking for a set of possible rules/regulations or possibly even suggestions that you think MIGHT help this get off the ground, ya know. There's been a lot of posts, and you've contributed your fair share over the few pages. It might just make an easier reference.

Hmmm, who are you referring to? Carriburst was my idea AFAIK, I believe I started it, but I have nothing to gain by taking credit for it, I'm confused as to what point you are alluding to, so please spell it out for me.

If you're alluding to me in some way, please be clear about it so I know what you're trying to say.

I was reffering to Mr. Litch. Yeah, it was your idea BUT he seemed to have taken the bull by the horn on the thing. After all, he did do some sort of carriburst yeah? I don't really remember it though, it was a while ago.

My browser crashes after this, so I can't answer the rest of your questions in quotes though. Honestly, I just want to build some guitars for fun. I mean besides doing it because you enjoy it, why should you do it at all? I'm really crap at organizing things like this, so I don't have any suggestions to help get a backbone. I just want to build.

Chris

Edited December 20, 2006 by AlGeeEater

[Drak]

Is it different than GOTM? Absolutely

Rich, with all honest and sincere due respect, that is no answer, I hope someone can do better than that, or my case will be proven to hold some validity.

That will be determined as we move to the next phase of development. When the information being collected in this pole is used to shape the rules and regs for the event.

OK, you're saying that as of yet, you honestly don't know how this will be different than the GOTM, the difference will be determined at a later point?

My point is that it was an idea, and no one really bounced it around to see if it would hold air, no one really put it up for scrutiny to see if it could actually be done properly at all before deciding to just go ahead and get it started.

Not true. The original discussion was closed because there was too much talk and discussion, and the thought was we needed to start polls to determine interest and collect feedback. We have not started the event. We are moving forward.

It is a good time to speak your peace, and since the other topic was closed this is the only place to do it. However kind of comment has no value other than to say you guys are idiots for wasting your time. It will never work.

OK, fair enough, and I agree with you for the most part.

However, I take exception to the part about calling anybody an idiot, that is pretty inflammatory language, putting words in my mouth that I did not use nor did I intend to use nor did I mean to imply.

You Sir, are the one who used the term idiot, not I.

What I am asking you to do is question the validity of your basic idea and see if it holds water.

If it does, then great. Green light, Proceed forward.

Personally, my experience with most group-oriented things here at PG has been that I'd guess a 95% mortality rate would be a pretty fair estimate, GOTM excluded.

To not take a hard look at that fact and figure out why (learning the lessons of history so to not repeat them) most group oriented ideas fail around here miserably is to invite yet another mishap.

My recommendation was actually based on helping you guys to MAKE IT A SUCCESS if you can.

But I don't see it, just because you had a basic idea does,in no way, gurarantee you a successful competition, and I would like to see a successful competition.

My guess is that this will probably dry up and blow away soon. There just isn't the backbone support here to assemble a proper competition, and most entrants are so far apart from each other in skill levels to make it a -very- hard sell logistically, even on a good day

Please explain to me how that could be taken ANY other way, and keep in mind people who are saying they will participate are NOT taking issue with the judging staff.

Fair question. My statement was primarily fueled from the past failures here anytime anyone has tried to get a group hug thang going on, it typically just doesn't work out, and I don't see anything DIFFERENT here going on.

You do the same things, you get the same results.

There is nothing negative in anything I posted, less the 'blow away' quote ( ). I think, for it to be a success, you have to ask yourselves why it will succeed.

From here, I'm out of it, good luck and Godspeed to all entrants in their builds.

Peace Out.

[AlGeeEater]

You call that a contest! . I may just have to PM you a few times when I am stuck on design issues. I have very little experience with Archtops(that is why I really want to play with them more).

It's not much of a contest if we're in the same boat now is it?

Chris

[erikbojerik]

Polls, opinions, points of view, general gab.....all of it is good to a point. Then someone Will nEed to Step in, define the boundaries for better or worse, and set it off.

Edited December 20, 2006 by erikbojerik

[fryovanni]

You call that a contest! . I may just have to PM you a few times when I am stuck on design issues. I have very little experience with Archtops(that is why I really want to play with them more).

It's not much of a contest if we're in the same boat now is it?

Chris

So I will just have to push you overboard

I am building building one way or the other. So I will watch for the rules and start date. I think I have put more than my 2 cents in(and then some). I have some templates to get started on.

Peace,Rich

[AlGeeEater]

So I will just have to push you overboard

I am building building one way or the other. So I will watch for the rules and start date. I think I have put more than my 2 cents in(and then some). I have some templates to get started on.

Peace,Rich

Well see. You're all talk, Mr. Rich. Let's see if you can walk, the walk.

I'm building one either way also. Actually, i'm building 3 either way.

So, is it safe to say we have established a good set of regulations yet, anyone?

Chris

Edited December 20, 2006 by AlGeeEater

[fryovanni]

[

Well see. You're all talk, Mr. Rich. Let's see if you can walk, the walk.

I'm building one either way also. Actually, i'm building 3 either way.

So, is it safe to say we have established a good set of regulations yet, anyone?

Chris

I'll pull my walker out of the closet and show you who can walk young man.

Question(Wes?)- I am going to be working in my shop over the holidays(my one week off each year). Will it be a problem to start glueing up billets, neck blanks/scarfs prior to the "official start". It would be nice to take advantage of my time off. If you think that would be a rule breaker(ie.. pile of wood pic w/newspaper in the shot) I will just wait and work on my acoustic.

Peace,Rich

[spazzyone]

Can't we all just get along HA.HA

i made my three sugetions based on what i would make for my next build on my own

and just added them as my ideas. but i am not limited to them

the Fender,Gibson,PRS idea was not bad

but so far i dont see enough people to make that happen

i will go back into my hole and let the judges make the descision's

like was the thought when that post was closed

i also agree with Drak's opinion's as he holds some very valid points

so Drak if your not in why not be a judge as you seem to have more input than most

Wes get control of us please or close the compition as it is getting to bickering

my$.02

Edited December 20, 2006 by spazzyone

[AlGeeEater]

I'll pull my walker out of the closet and show you who can walk young man.

Peace,Rich

Let me help you out of your wheelchair first.

OK, enough of this Off-Topics-ness eh?

Chris

[westhemann]

[

Well see. You're all talk, Mr. Rich. Let's see if you can walk, the walk.

I'm building one either way also. Actually, i'm building 3 either way.

So, is it safe to say we have established a good set of regulations yet, anyone?

Chris

I'll pull my walker out of the closet and show you who can walk young man.

Question(Wes?)- I am going to be working in my shop over the holidays(my one week off each year). Will it be a problem to start glueing up billets, neck blanks/scarfs prior to the "official start". It would be nice to take advantage of my time off. If you think that would be a rule breaker(ie.. pile of wood pic w/newspaper in the shot) I will just wait and work on my acoustic.

Peace,Rich

if anyone disagrees,let me know...but as far as i am concerned,glueing blanks,thicknessing,level sanding...basically prepping the wood and getting it to size is fine for pre-contest.

why?i thought about this for a few minutes and the reason i think it is fair is because some of you guys will be buying already planed,thicknessed,and glued blanks to work with because some of you don't have a regular wood shop.

so rich,i think since you are starting from raw wood,the prep work is perfectly acceptable

also,since the point has been made that you guys disagree on a few issues,i will decide on those issues as fairly as i can when the time comes.

setch is too busy with his non-forum life right now to step in and take over...but i did ask...so you guys are stuck with me for now.

i will discuss anything i am unsure of with setch and others...but if you guys want to make this thing work,then after this entry poll is over(sunday) i need to come up with an outline and post it.

after mulling it over all day,i really,really,very strongly think we should stick with the gibson/prs lp/dc idea.it gives the most flexibility in terms of design really.and i am strongly leaning that way.

[Simo]

We could always make the rules of the competition that you have to make YOUR OWN design, from a judging point of view that would be more interesting to score, plus it would make it significantly different from GOTM.

To me that's more of a challenge than building an LP, Tele, Prs, copy.

[spazzyone]

why?i thought about this for a few minutes and the reason i think it is fair is because some of you guys will be buying already planed,thicknessed,and glued blanks to work with because some of you don't have a regular wood shop.

that leaves alot on the table if people are buying "Pre Made" anything other than hardware

but whatever im game

and a paul or prs is cool

We could always make the rules of the competition that you have to make YOUR OWN design,

then design becoms a factor........that is guitar of the month

Edited December 21, 2006 by spazzyone

[Simo]

then design becoms a factor........that is guitar of the month

I disagree. GOTM has no rules on what type of guitar/bass is entered, original design or not... anything goes (hell we've even had Uke's entered before! ) it's then voted by everyone, not by a team of well respected judges who go over every little detail to select a winner... therefore in my eyes at least this little comp will be different.

I can honestly see both sides of the arguments in this thread, and I'm sure whatever the final decision is not everybody will be 100% happy, that's life. But hopefully we can reach a compromise that suits most people and maximises the amount of entries, that's the most important thing in my opinion.

EDIT: Just to clarify... when I said 'your own' design I meant an original design not an 'any shape goes' contest, sorry if that wasn't clear in my first post (I blame the Guinness )

Edited December 21, 2006 by Simo

[spazzyone]

But hopefully we can reach a compromise that suits most people and maximises the amount of entries, that's the most important thing in my opinion.

thats what i would like to see

[westhemann]

i like the idea of original designs...but not this contest i think...maybe next time...i have a vee design i would love to enter into a contest like that ..

the reason i think it would not work now is that nobody has original designs worked out yet...if we were to do that it would be like"hey...you have 6 months to refine an original guitar that works and put it into drawing form to submit to the panel of judges...then we have 6 months to build"

designing a GREAT guitar takes alot of time...you have to sit there and stare at it every time you enter the room...subtly change the lines here and there,...until it is perfecxt

i put mine on the floor in front of the television so that every time i walk in the room i see it...from every angle.

[verhoevenc]

Maybe for a future longer contest, the GROUP designs a guitar shape and then then go off to make it their own for the contest build.

Chris

[Maiden69]

Too many side tracking here!

KISS. All that needs to be done have been said by Drak or Wes a long time ago. Lets get the top 3 shapes, start a topic with those 3 on top and have the BUILDERS vote for the shape they like. No forum vote, JUST builders! Once this is done, then all we got to do is wait to the start date and start working. If there is a draw, then the builders will vote on the 2 shapes! Simple I guess.

[Drak]

Maybe for a future longer contest, the GROUP designs a guitar shape and then then go off to make it their own for the contest build.

That exact contest was already done at the MIMF several years ago.

It was a Jaguar or Jazzmaster kinda thing.

I'm not here to copy what the MIMF does.

If I want to do MIMF stuff, I go over to the MIMF, which I haven't felt a need to do for about 4-5 years now

[westhemann]

Too many side tracking here!

KISS. All that needs to be done have been said by Drak or Wes a long time ago. Lets get the top 3 shapes, start a topic with those 3 on top and have the BUILDERS vote for the shape they like. No forum vote, JUST builders! Once this is done, then all we got to do is wait to the start date and start working. If there is a draw, then the builders will vote on the 2 shapes! Simple I guess.

don't worry maiden.let them sidetrack...it's not sidetracking me,and i am sticking to the plan...

[erikbojerik]

But hopefully we can reach a compromise that suits most people and maximises the amount of entries, that's the most important thing in my opinion.

thats what i would like to see

That IS what Guitar Of The Month IS. Already.

And there's nothing to keep anyone from entering their hollowbody Explorer (or whatever) into GOTM.

[fryovanni]

Keep feeding suggestions if you have them. Wes will take all the input and evaluate(fair, based on all the feedback, and well thought through). BTW; Wes thanks(you are still right on track).

In the process of refining this. There are two appearant pitfalls. One, making this similar to GOTM(wide open builds, open judging, no time limits(it is monthly), no entry fee, no material prize). Two, reducing participation by limiting its scope(limited build options,select judges,time limited,admission fee(material of sort), some material prize structure). This will be a balancing act in the end. We will know pretty quick if the scope limits participation(before this officially starts).

In the end it is all going to be in the hands of the builders to get the job done, and make this happen. Hopefully everyone that enters will take the responcibility seriously and hold up their end of the bargain. Time will tell.

Peace,Rich

[RMS]

I am in, I hope!

1. LP

2. PRS double cut

3. SG

I will donate to the wining pot some various passive items that can be used in the electronics: capicitors, hook up wire, and some pots for volume and tone.

[westhemann]

okay...time is up!

it is christmas and i am busy t the moment,si i will start the next polls a little later,but don't worry i haven't forgot you guys