Jon Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Those guys on those 9-strings simply will NOT be able to hold down a standard walking bass line in the lower registers, or at least not without discomfort. Not true at all, there are plenty of ERBists that play these monsters in jazz, funk, or any other genre of music out there that play lower registers all the time. The whole point in playing this thing in a band setting is for the bass, why make that uncomfortable?. Why in the world would anyone want to play an instrument that they would find uncomfortable? I know I wouldn't. The only way to reach the lowest notes in any sort of efficient way is with tapping. They won't be doing any popping or slapping down there, either. Once again, not true at all. Nothing wrong being a skeptic - so here's enough proof. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRHpZIoe_k. Despite the versatility "on paper," one guy played completely in a "classical guitar" way, and in the same octave ranges, while the other guy played completely stick-style, tapping his low notes. The video wasn't there to show every possible technique that can be played on an ERB, it was just an example to show how they can be played. It goes without saying that it's "different strokes" kinda thing, but it still seems very much a flawed design. An instrument, like any number of other pieces of engineering, shouldn't try so hard to be all things, or it'll fail at some. Flawed is quite an ignorant remark - there are thousands and thousands of 7+ string basses out there, hundreds are made in custom shops yearly. A few guys to name are Conklin, Bee Basses, FBB Custom, Noguera, Listerud, SEI, JP basses, Veillette, and Watson Guitars. That's just to name a few. Extended Range Basses may push past most bassists physical limits, but they are anything but flawed. You may get the ability to pop and slap, but if you're going to play it like a stick, a stick does a better job of being a stick, y'know? And a classical guitar does a better job of being a classical guitar. I don't see the true intrinsic benefit of the instrument having that extended range. Maybe I've just still never seen anyone (including those sample videos) fully exploiting what should be the design benefits. A piano covers quite a bit of range, the majority of the octaves I'd say. So why bother playing any other instrument out there? Because "different strokes for different folks". I'll agree certain instruments will be better for certain tasks, but theres nothing wrong with extra range. No offense Greg, but I'd do a little more research next time before saying what "is" and "isn't" possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Once again, not true at all. Nothing wrong being a skeptic - so here's enough proof. Gregory Bruce Campbell playing his signature 9-string. well..you have me convinced.that guy is quite good.and he seems to play in the lower registers very easily... i don't know what it is,but i don't think my hands would comfortably do that.i have decently long fingers,some people have said too long..but maybe i just have bad fretboard mechanics. very interesting though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Frankly, I don't have the time to Google for every extended range bassist out there, and my final phrase ADMITS that I might just not have seen it in action. No need to get upset about it. One can't be an expert on everything, and I was wrong about the popping and slapping. That dude did a great job. But, he didn't use the extended range. And the lowest of the low notes was indistinguishable as a note. It was a percussive "thud" which is kind of neat, but in a BAND setting I imagine my drummer's kick is placing the thud at the right place. If you think that the point of this is to be in a band setting, why no videos of an ERB being played in a band? I'm sure they're out there. Didn't I already address the piano issue? <scratches head> I can't remember. As for the "comfort" factor, you are saying my exact words back to me-- why make an instrument that's uncomfortable? But that's what they've done in the case of some of the examples I've seen in this thread and others. Heavy? You bet. Neck that's wider than your fingers are long? Yup. So it's a good question. And whether or not a guy is 'capable' of playing the bass still doesn't factor in whether it's ergonomically efficient and/or truly comfortable. He himself (or other ERBassists, if not him) might say, "Damn this thing is uncomfortable, but it's the only instrument that makes it possible to play what I want to play." You say "ignorant" as though it's a bad thing. People are ignorant about all kinds of things. I have not hidden the fact that I know little to nothing about 9-string basses. Not to mention that I said it "seems" like a flawed design. I did not say, as you contend, that it "is" a flawed design. Be that as it may, including that new video you posted, I've yet to see a compelling argument for the utility of the extended range. He could have played that part with a 6-string. And I have my doubts (ignorant ones!) that in a band situation in particular, that any given ERBassist is using much of that range at all. In any event, I'm certainly not offended... if anything, I'm happy to get educated. Whether or not I think that most recent video demonstrates the usefulness of an ERB, I thought it was pretty cool. I hope you're not offended at my questioning the purpose of these things. If along the way you manage to convince me that they're useful, you will have scored a victory for your cause, and I will have gotten a little bit less ignorant along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 the slapping in the video looked like it utilized all 9 strings.it did use all of the low ones...you can see he could easily drop down to the upper register if he wanted to.but it didn't sound like jon was upset at all...he just pointed out why we didn't know what we were talking about. i still have a hard time believing it would not be uncomfortable for long sessions...but if the music is good,then i am okay with it.i think it is probably most useful for the bass soloist.but hey,it has been shown that at least it does have a use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Greg, I'm never offended! I'm always open for debate and I certainly agree that everyone is ignorant of something. I simply stated that the remark is ignorant, not you. I understand where you are coming from and I'd love to answer any questions you have. Just know one thing, I have no tolerance for ignorance. I can't stand when people boast on about lies and the like as truth. I never hesitate to correct someone. I'll have to get back to you on videos of ERB's used in band settings. There were two really cool Bill Dickens videos I saw recently, but it seems they were taken down a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 In this case, the extended range that wasn't being used was the upper range, though. That's what I meant. I'm sure that you'll see that the only time he's in that upper range is for a brief little effect that would have been just as.. er.. effective! on a 6-string. His tone was great, too. Glad nobody's upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 In this case, the extended range that wasn't being used was the upper range, though. That's what I meant. yeah...but we all agree that the upper range is easily accessible...so seeing that video shows that it is at least feasable to write music using all of the range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Yes, it's true. I guess the argument, IMO, can be presented 2 ways: 1. Is it physically possible and/or comfortable to use an instrument of that design 2. Does it give the musician an intrinsic benefit over other instruments in its class? The answer to #1 so far is: Yup, it's physically possible to do whatever the heck you want with it, but some skepticism remains over the ergonomics and comfort of it. The answer to #2 is so subjective that there's not going to be a conclusion, really. I lean towards agreeing with Wes at this point in time-- to the solo bassist (equivalent to the solo pianist, as per Jon's counter-argument) there's probably a lot that can be done. Arrangements that aren't possible with 5- or even 6-string basses. Since the examples seen so far are featuring primarily solo bass musicians, I have little choice at this point but to agree that there's probably a niche market for this instrument after all. I just don't think of those musicians as bassists anymore. When you're holding down the low end and maintaining the groove of the song (not necessarily needing to be flashy about it), you're in traditional bass territory. When you're using a 9-string and soloing in the upper registers, you're not really being a bassist anymore. Clearly, there aren't any physical limitations stopping you from doing both, but then you're in Stick territory. The 9-string bass strikes me as too much of a compromise in order to be able to claim to do all of those things. Anyhow, I guess I'm halfway there to changing my opinion, but I'm not really convinced yet. It's probably already evidenced in this and other threads that I don't value extra octaves as much as I value making the most out of the octaves you have. Even more off-topic from our off-topicness: as an example, I am completely indifferent to having 24 frets on a guitar, while some people see it as a "must-have." I think guitars sound like crap when played at the 24th fret (E-string, because there's no point having 24 frets except to give the E string an additional full-stop) in the first place, and most guitars make accessing those frets a chore. I also think that 7 strings is plenty for a guitar. I like violins to be violins, cellos to be cellos, contrabass to be contrabass... and though there is frequency overlap and the same playing technique, I wouldn't want to see a contrabass with an extended range... just let the cellos step in. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 I think guitars sound like crap when played at the 24th fret (E-string, because there's no point having 24 frets except to give the E string an additional full-stop) in the first place, and most guitars make accessing those frets a chore.well...i have 24 on all of mine...but i include better upper fret access for those extra 2 frets as well...but you are right...i hardly ever use the 24th. the reason i started using 24 fret guitars is that it makes reaching the 22nd easier...which i do use alot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 (edited) Jean Baudin Mike Fudakowski These are some of my more favorite bassists in the band settings. Garry Goodman has a really cool tapped harmonic technique, sound pretty crazy on bass solos. On Jean Baudin's myspace page, scroll down to his music player above the video of him playing. Check out any of his stuff with Element of Surprise or Nuclear rabbit. A few notables are "Truth's Ugly Head" "Alone with my clone" and "Flip the Switch". Very awesome use of the F# string in "Flip the Switch". I really like what he brings to a band as a musician, very cool guy! Mike has done some awesome work with Cripple Mr. Onion, check out any of his work with them. If you want anymore videos, let me know. I haven't had much time to go video hunting though! Edited February 25, 2007 by Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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