DrummerDude Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hi guys, do you think that a fixed Floyd Rose could replace a hard tail bridge? I mean, will the sustain and attack be the same or close to that of a hard tail guitar or will they still be worse because the huge cavity for the Floyd Rose wil be messing them up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hi guys, do you think that a fixed Floyd Rose could replace a hard tail bridge? I mean, will the sustain and attack be the same or close to that of a hard tail guitar or will they still be worse because the huge cavity for the Floyd Rose wil be messing them up? Too many variables to say for sure. The Floyd is probably heavier then most hardtails (even counting the missing wood for the trem cavities), which I believe is usually a good thing for sustain. On the other hand, the contact to the wood will not be as good as a typical hardtail. To me it's a coin toss... the Floyd could be better or worse, but I think the difference would be negligible. Practicality is another matter all together. I wouldn't want to mess with allen wrenches, snipping the ends off strings, locking nuts, and action compromises for a bridge whose main "feature" I wouldn't even be using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 What about a fixed Floyd bridge? http://floydrose.com/fixedbridge.html I dunno really what the benefit of buying a Floyd nut and a fixed bridge as opposed to a TOM or flatmount or something. I realize that the strings are more taut because of the locking nut, and some people might prefer the feel of their palm resting on a Floyd bridge. I personally like the feel of a nice stiff string, but I don't think I'm about to go buy a fixed Floyd bridge because of it. And I agree with fookgub, practicality ftw. Food for thought, in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thing is that I want to buy a guitar but they don't have the hard tail model in stock. Actually it would be freaking hard to get this brand here in Europe but I think that I can get a model with a Floyd Rose from an American web site that still has it available. Problem is that I hate all kinds of tremolos because they are killing My Sound. So, I thought of buying the model witht he Floyd Rose and then trying to fix the tremolo. I still want to use the Floyd from time to time, so the fixture would be acomplished via a tremolo bar clamp (or whatever it is called in English) which, I think, won't be able fix the tremolo as good as a piece of wood stuck between the body and the springs. Not to mention that most probably even the piece of wood method won't give me the desired tone and sustain. Fixed or not, Floyds don't have good contact witht the body of the guitar. It is a messed up situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 the difference is negligible in my experience. www.tremel-no.com you have been here a while...i am surprised you don't know of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 No, I don't know anything about www.tremel-no.com and actually, I think that the address is wrong or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 No, I don't know anything about www.tremel-no.com and actually, I think that the address is wrong or something. Never tried the tremolno but I have been using the hipshot tremsetter for years. Great for a fully floating bridge but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. Will the bridge be fully floating or setup for diving only? If the floyd is resting directly on the body, I doubt that you would hear a really noticeable difference in tone and to say that one is better than the other is really subjective and depends on the kind of sound you're going for. All my floyd guitars used to be setup resting directy on the body. I now have Ibanez guitars or customs with the Ibanez Edge fully floating trem these days, with the tremsetter (a must with any fully floating trem). There's also the fender floyd that can be setup (almost) like a hardtail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 http://www.tremol-no.com/ Fixed link, minor spelling mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fookgub Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Never tried the tremolno but I have been using the hipshot tremsetter for years. Great for a fully floating bridge but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for. Will the bridge be fully floating or setup for diving only? If the floyd is resting directly on the body, I doubt that you would hear a really noticeable difference in tone and to say that one is better than the other is really subjective and depends on the kind of sound you're going for. I agree 100% with this. I'd like to add the I had a tremsetter in my guitar for a couple of years. When I installed it, I noticed an immediate improvement in how "lively" the guitar felt when played, and I perceived an improvement in sustain as well. I can't say that I noticed any change in the amplified tone of the instrument, though. I later set the guitar up for dive only (blocked the trem with a piece of wood), and I can't say I felt much improvement in sustain, tone, or the feel of the instrument over the tremsetter. The tuning stability did improve, though. Anyway, this is just one man's experience with one guitar, so don't take it as the gospel truth... I'm just offering my experiences since they seem somewhat relevant to your dilemma. FWIW, practicality eventually took over and I decided to build a new body for that guitar so I could dump the Floyd. In fact, it would not be a stretch at all to say the the Floyd Rose (or more correctly, the desire to not have a Floyd Rose) is one of the main reasons I became interested in guitar building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks guys. I am just forced to buy a guitar with a Floyd Rose and since I am paying extra for the toy I simply need to be able to use it both fixed and fully floating. My concerns re about the actual fixing of the Floyd and the tone I am going to get out of the fixed tremolo. Will the bridge be fully floating or setup for diving only? If the floyd is resting directly on the body, I doubt that you would hear a really noticeable difference in tone and to say that one is better than the other is really subjective and depends on the kind of sound you're going for. I hope there's going to be a difference. Don't know how close to a hard tail the fixed Floyd is going to sound, though. That's why I started this topic - just wanted to share some thoughts and get advices from people who have done this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Thanks guys. I am just forced to buy a guitar with a Floyd Rose and since I am paying extra for the toy I simply need to be able to use it both fixed and fully floating. My concerns re about the actual fixing of the Floyd and the tone I am going to get out of the fixed tremolo. Will the bridge be fully floating or setup for diving only? If the floyd is resting directly on the body, I doubt that you would hear a really noticeable difference in tone and to say that one is better than the other is really subjective and depends on the kind of sound you're going for. I hope there's going to be a difference. Don't know how close to a hard tail the fixed Floyd is going to sound, though. That's why I started this topic - just wanted to share some thoughts and get advices from people who have done this before. The difference in tone between hardtail and fixed floyd resting on the body is inconsequential. You will never be able to compare the difference in tone between the two because there are too many variables (unless the guitar was originally a hradtail, then converted to floyd and you have before/after recordings done with the exact same setup to base the comparison on) . I guess you should word you question differently. Will the floyd degrade the sound quality, or "tone". The answer is no. If you like the tone of the guitar, buy it and if you don't leave it - as simple as that. Edited February 8, 2007 by guitar2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thanks guys. I am just forced to buy a guitar with a Floyd Rose who is forcing you? There are many different guitars in the world and if you cant find exactly what you are after you can always build it - or pay someone too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Thanks guys. I am just forced to buy a guitar with a Floyd Rose who is forcing you? MusicYo.com and their shipping policy. I have to order from another site and they have the model witht he FloydRose only. There are no other Kramer Vanguard sellers in the world besides MusicYo.com and that other web site (unchainedguitars.com). Both are American. There are absolutely no Kramer dealers in Europe. Funny, isn't it? There are many different guitars in the world and if you cant find exactly what you are after you can always build it - or pay someone too!! Too busy to build anything, too stingy to order a custom built guitar. And last, but not least: too in love with the model I am after to replace it with anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 Stock Alert - Out of Stock This item is expected to arrive on or before 3/3/2007. To be notified when it arrives, please enter your e-mail address below: Looks like you have some time. EDIT: Did you know that Carvin is resurrecting the Ultra V? I'd bet it's 10 times the quality of the Kramer. Ok, 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 that carvin v is upside down...very unappealing.carvin is good quality though,much better than those kramers musicyo stocks the vangaurd is a jackson rr clone...the jacksons are much nicer..but they are more than $270... but you should know the "floyd" that kramer has on it is very sub-par...there are many better rr clones out there...iwould look around,many are available with t.o.m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 the vangaurd is a jackson rr clone...the jacksons are much nicer..but they are more than $270... but you should know the "floyd" that kramer has on it is very sub-par...there are many better rr clones out there...iwould look around,many are available with t.o.m. The Old Kramer Vanguard used to be something very close to a Jackson RR. Actually, I think that the first Kramer Vanguards were made before Randy Rhoad's Jackson model, so it is more like that Jackson RRs are clones of the classic Vanguard Kramer. The new Vangaurds are quite different fromt he average Jackson RR too. They have sloped wings for arm comfort, so you don't get bruises on your forearm after a few minutes of playing. And that reversed headstock is freaking cool for the looks. They are not low quality at all - equipped with Gotoh tuners, Gibson Tune-o-Matic bridge, American Quad Rail humbucker pickups that have 4 coils in each - a whole lot of 8 coils per guitar which is like having 4 humbuckers instead of only 2 in your axe. These Quad Rails are known for totally eliminating the hum and having a very hot output for a passive pickup. They are cool for metal and people like to compare them with higher end products. I think that it is a rather good offer for the ridiculously low price. I am NOT after the model witht he Floyd Rose. So, I don't care if the floyds they put in the new Vanguards are good or not. I was just thinking how to fix that Floyd in case I have to order a model with a tremolo. @marksound, I cannot order from MusicYo.com even if they have the Vanguard back in stock again. They do not ship to my country and Iw as unable to make them make an exception just for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 The Old Kramer Vanguard used to be something very close to a Jackson RR. Actually, I think that the first Kramer Vanguards were made before Randy Rhoad's Jackson model, so it is more like that Jackson RRs are clones of the classic Vanguard Kramer. Randy Rhoads came up with the "Rhoads" offset V with Grover Jackson while he was at Charvel guitars. Because of the neck through construction, headstock shape, ebony board, Block inlays (white trem model) and shark fin inlays (black TOM model) and it being so different than anything Charvel made at the time, Grover Jackson decided to launch the guitar not under the Charvel name but under the Jackson name. The Rhoads V was the first ever Jackson guitar. The Kramer Vanguard came years after the original Jackson V came out. At the time, Randy had already passed away. The Vanguard is a cheap copy and resembles in no way the Jackson V. Like the others said, the Floyd on that guitar will be of low quality and will eventually give you tuning stability issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrummerDude Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 (edited) I think that the Jackson RR (first Jackson indeed) appeared somewhere between. Kramer were making radically shaped metal guitars in the 70's and the Vanguard appeared somewhere in the early '80s. I *think* that it was born before Ransy's Jackson. You are right that the new Korean Vanguards do not look like Jackson RRs and actually that's why I am loving them. Their design is so cool. I prefer them because of their evil look and sloped wings (good for resting your arm on). Their reversed banana headstock is quite Gibson-esque and cool too. PS: It's just a matter of taste. I would not mind buying a cheap Jackson but I hear that they sound like crap. The Kramer has several good advantages and one of them is the Quad Rail pickups. Edited February 12, 2007 by DrummerDude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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