Xanthus Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I was just wondering what strategies people used when balancing guitars without horns, or at least an upper horn. There really aren't any major problems with my Explorer, just that it tends to want to nosedive when I'm standing up playing (I admit I'm a lazy dude and do most of my playing at the computer, sitting down). I've heard about the "12th fret rule" with upper horns and straps and the like, but I didn't know if builders had any strategies for guitar shapes sans upper horn. It's nothing I can change with the build now, I'm assuming, such as denser body woods and stuff, and I'm too broke to upgrade hardware at this point... so just curious for future reference, I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 There really aren't any major problems with my Explorer, just that it tends to want to nosedive when I'm standing up playing ( if thats not a problem for you then you dont really need to worry about this issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Thanks for the help, Wez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 you can balance them in a number of ways.i use lighter tuning machines,thinner headstocks,thinner necks,denser bodies...stuff like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 I would guess that an explorer could be better balanced by moving the rear strap button nearer the top of the body, making the body hang lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Alright, how about a serious answer! Like you said, the best way to balance a guitar is have a long upper horn. If that isnt an option then it does come down to playing with the weight, i.e heavier body and lighter neck. You also need to consider scale length and how far the neck will go into the body because obviously the longer the neck sticks out the less it balances. Its a hard thing to get right without making the guitar too heavy. Personally i finds that really light guitars can balance better, but in reality its probably that i can feel the lack of balance less because they are easier to chuck around. I dont think that moving the rear strap button is a good idea, it feels strange to me. But i think that dual rear strap buttons ala Tom Anderson may help provide a bit more stability down that end and therefore improve the percieved balance . The other strap buttons placement is crucial and i hate guitars that have them on the heel, mainly because now you have the issue of the guitar tipping forward as well as the headstock heading for the floor. This doesnt seem to be as much an issue on heavy guitars such as a Yamaha SG2000 compared with the relatively light gibson SG, i can only pressume that the weight prevents the pivoting forward. I still think it would be better on the upper horn though but i am struggling to convince some people of that. You always have the option of tying the strap around the headstock but that dont really look good on electrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Thanks for the answers, guys Silly me figured that a mahogany explorer-sized body would be heavy enough, hahaha The real reason I asked is because I'm planning a V build and am trying to figure out how to make it balance well. I'm foreseeing the same type of problems as with the Explorer build, due to the similar shape, maybe more because of the lack of body mass and my desire to use a maple through neck and a basswood body :-P Wez, would you think that moving the strap button to the side of the guitar rather than the back of the body would help the balancing, even though the V has no real place to put the button? Not saying I'd do this, I'm envisioning it looking pretty ugly, but just as a hypothetical. My other problem with the explorer might have been the Sperzels. I take it these are comparatively heavy compared to other tuners. Are there any good quality lightweight locking tuners on the market? I don't think I've seen any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 gotoh or schaller minis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Wez, would you think that moving the strap button to the side of the guitar rather than the back of the body would help the balancing, even though the V has no real place to put the button? vee's are more difficult, its gotta go near the heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 gotoh or schaller minis Hmm, as it turns out (research as an afterthought tends not to work as well ) the Sperzels that I ordered weigh 7.09 oz, which is on the light side for locking tuners. the only tuners I found that were lighter were the Gotoh oval knobs, non-locking. I mean, locking tuners aren't necessary on a hardtail, but having to tune up once every 6 songs as opposed to once ever 2 or 3 is kinda nice, heh. I'm thinking, since I'm going to build the neck this summer, will the V balance better if the maple core is larger? I'm going to cut it out of 2-piece maple flatsawn and flipped to be quartered. I'll cut it so that I won't have to glue headstock wings, which will make it about 3" wide. I'll use the maple scraps for various assorted other projects. So having a 3" maple core and attaching the basswood wings will make the body heavier, even if only by a little. Also, with regards to my own question about strap button placement on a V, I did some searching and found that Alexi's signature model has moved the strap button to the top edge of the back. I would direct the curious here and here for comparison. My guess is because of the different body shape and the fact that his model has a type of lower horn hand cutaway. In either case, though, it would probably help most to get the strap button as forward and as upward as possible to help with the balance, no? Man, at this point, I wish I knew ANYTHING about physics, hahaha ::EDIT:: Gotcha, Wez, you posted as I was whittling away at my own post. In that case, would a lower-placed button on the heel be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 you have to put the button on a vee at the heel,and the other one as close to the center of the v cut as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 nah, i think that strap button that has been moved up is a nice solution - i was gonna suggest something similar. but it does mean the strap button has been moved back a bit so that might comprise any benfits. What it definately helps is the foward pivoting issue you get when both strap buttons are on the centreline of the guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Hmm, if the rear strap button should be as close to the center of the V as possible, why has it always been placed so far away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 by mistake? look,i rig beams quite a bit at work to fly them level up to the building,so i am quite familiar with balance of two point rigging,and BOTH positions are important for balance. why do they place it so far back?probably because alot of people are too fat to fit in the smaller loop of the strap when it is so close.i am quite thin,so i put it where it balances best.all of my vees i move the button closer in on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biliousfrog Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Surely if you put the strap button in the centre of the V the guitar will want to tip forwards where-as putting it on the top section of the guitar will increase the mass at the bottom of the guitar & allow it to hang properly? It obviously works for you but I doubt that Gibson, Jackson, BC Rich etc. have done it their way for all these years because of a mistake....but then again.... FWIW Wez, my explorer answer was very serious...I've never owned an explorer but by looking at the shape of it, a large amount of the body mass is above the rear strap button. By moving the button an inch or two higher, the guitar would naturally hang lower at the body, lifting the neck & preventing a nose-dive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted March 15, 2007 Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 why would it tip forward?the bottom of the vee hits your leg... do you guys even play standing up ever?i don't even sit down to record,and i probably have had more vees and explorers than most people here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted March 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2007 Well, one can't rightly gig while sitting down I ain't doubting ya, Wes, I know you know your stuff. Since all the strap buttons need are screw holes anyways, I can try out your method and see what works best for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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