Build #2

[Mattia]

If it's ebony, you should be able to do a pretty darn invisible repair. Fiddly, yes, but it'll teach you something.

[Xanthus]

A few pics of the board with a bit taken outta it.

http://public.fotki.com/Xanthus/build-2/

Last 2 pics. WARNING: Strong language inside.

In other news I brought my first build over the band practice room yesterday, and both the guitarist and his dad (a pro guitar tech) loved it! It did so much for my building-self-esteem But they didn't spend 8 months with their nose right up to it, magnifying every imperfection, did they? heheh

I should get some pics of the finished first one up, too. Mebbe tomorrow.

Any more advice? I'm thinking of chopping the corner off and just dealing with it. So long as I have the highest 3 strings at fret 24 I'll be happy.......er.

[Jon]

I don't think I've seen any guitars done this way, but I have seen a few basses like this. Just do a minor cut away like so.

http://www.extendedrangebassist.com/images/CoffeeTable.jpg

There are countless ways to cover mistakes. Listerud did a cool one by carving a snake and making it look like it's coming out of the neck.

[Mattia]

You could add binding to the neck. Would cover everything, but it's a bit fiddly at this stage (doable if you have a rabbet bit).

[TheIRS]

Ouch. But, maybe you could fashion the last two frets like one on those weird hamers with the triangular kind of fretboard end.

[jmrentis]

As I said before I would just slant over from left to right, leaving just about half of the 24 fret for you to play the high strings on as you mentioned you do. As in the Pic Jon showed to make the slant bigger you even start up at the 22 or something to make a stronger angle. Or fill the hole, and do an inaly that covers the top and side of the fretboard, but I still think the slant would be better. Just spend a lot of time looking at it now that you have some options and think about what YOU want to do with it, I think that is the funnest part is figuring stuff out that suits you personally.

When I first saw it, i thought it actually looked kinda cool and though hey why not mess up the other side and have this cool looking fretboard, but you mentioned playing the high e there, so that would ruin that idea. OH Wait, I got it!!! Put a wicked volume or tone mini knob in there. Then while your jamming away or doing some crazy finger picking you can mess with the sound all easy, lol, just kidding, anyhow, best of luck man, and don't worry too much I bet it'll turn out great! J

[Xanthus]

hahahaha, volume knob, I love it Thanks for the ideas, guys! I'm thinking of doing a slant or a swoosh like the picture Jon posted. I just gotta decide concave/convex curve and how far up to start. Hmm...

[Xanthus]

http://public.fotki.com/Xanthus/build_1/page4.html

/\ Finally pics of the first build, clear coated, but nothing of the assembly/final fit.

http://public.fotki.com/Xanthus/build-2/

/\ one pic, and the rest on page 2. Pulling the old fretboard off, and routing a wiring channel for the neck pickup wires. After the debacle with the first guitar in this area (drill bit coming out back of guitar) I figured it was safe and easy to do.

-------

So I ended up just chopping off the last 2 frets with the router instead of trying anything fancy. I'll learn to live with having to bend up to 24, hahaha.

In other news, I went ahead in drilled the holes for the sidedots, and ordered some white dot tubes from Ebay. Well, when the tubes arrived, they were too small for the holes, despite having their size marked on the Ebay page. I'm not goign to bitch and moan at him for a $2 pack of tubes that'll make about 10 necks. I'm just trying to find out how to fix the issue. I'm thinking maybe getting some black epoxy and stuffing the tube in, so there'll be a black ring around the white tube. Any thoughts on this?

I just moved into the dorm, so progress will be EVEN slower than it was over the summer, hahahaha. I also finished up the headstock shape. Next on the agenda is drilling tuner holes and gluing on the nut. Or should I buy my veneer first and glue it over the headstock, THEN drill? Seems smarter than to drill the same hole twice, eh

Should one glue the nut on first then glue the veneer up to it, or glue the veneer on, trim away/clean up the channel, and then glue the nut?

[P M]

Damnit... why didn't I think of routing PU wire slot in neck first!!! I'm stealin that one! The 12" long bits are nice if you can aim em properly but I'll be damned if I get one perfect yet!

Phil

[Xanthus]

Funny story, first time I tried to shoot from pickup to pickup on my first build, I came out the back of the guitar Good thing it was a tiny bit diameter, eh?

Another thing I'm going to do is have a separate jack cavity, like on a JEM, and install the jack and wire it up. BUT, I'm only going to glue on one wing at a time. I'm going to glue on the top wing, make my jack cavity, set up a drill jig and drill my wiring hole, then glue on the second wing and reopen the hole when I'm doing the main electronics cavity. Genius? Maybe not, but definitely smarter.

Have you got a build on the table, Phil?

PS. There HAS been progress on the build. I got fed up with trying to find plastic dots for the side of the fretboard, so I took a pine dowel, stuck it in the lathe, and trimmed it down to the diameter I needed. Worked like a charm Which is kinda canceled out by the fact that the first time I glued the veneer, it chipped as I was trimming it flush. So I've got a second piece lined up to glue on, just haven't gotten around to it yet. I've been testing my fret press jig, and it works great. I'm just trying to get a feel for the whole process, because the last thing I want to do is send up a request to ask someone to refret my neck for me, especially with SS frets.

[P M]

Have you got a build on the table, Phil?

Yessir... still arranging it all out! Mainly I'm trying to find a suitable top... I kinda like the really 'wacky' unpredictable types - the camphour is like that but I was lookin at some walnut or spalted stuffs... I also gotta round up the money for another damn LoPro7 - suckers are expensive!

For jack holes, I find it really easy to use those 'pin' jacks... plus they're shielded and nicer. I just use a forstner bit for the seen recess and any ol bit to go right to the cavity. On the "Inferno" guitar I built, I made the jack angle so that it cant be pulled out and is out of the way by shifting it up a little bit. I should do a closeup of it one of these days.

Phil

[Xanthus]

I drew out another 10-minute Photoshop of how I'm planning on doing the jack.

http://public.fotki.com/Xanthus/build-2/page2.html (Note: not to scale, the actual diagram is much more thorough)

I play exclusively with angled jacks on the "guitar end" of the cable, because I feed the cable through my strap. However, to prevent the need to switch cables AND guitars during a show, I decided to finagle with the jack setup to accommodate a right-angle cable. I would route a channel (in blue) to allow the cord to access the jack (in red). I'm a fan of the barrel jacks myself:

http://www.carvin.com/products/single.php?...FJ1B&CID=EP

I would next route a cavity only as large as necessary, to wire up the jack and install it, and secure the cover with magnets. I'm thinking this will work well. The (blue) channel would not be noticeable from the front or back, and would be tight enough to not let the cord wiggle from side to side.

The only reservation I have about doing it this way is when I bevel the edges, I want to have enough "meat" to work with, know what I'm saying? I don't want to have the depth of the bevels be too deep and end up running into the channel.

The other point of question is the location of the strap button. On the picture, there is no room to put the strap below the jack, but on my full-size diagram there is room, the pic just isn't to scale. The other option would be to put it above the jack, but I'm not sure how it would work as far as balancing the guitar out. TemjinStrife and I were talking about the subject on his thread, and I started my own thread about it a while back. I've got mixed reports of where the best place was to keep the V from diving. But this whole thing is a ways away anyways, I'm still stuck on fretting my board If it turns out that my idea just plain isn't going to work no matter what, I can always take a strat-style jack (as much as it kills me; I hate cord wiggle!) and flip it around to achieve basically the same effect.

[jmrentis]

Cool stuff, hope it all works out for you. I always put the cords through my strap also, it's helpful indeed when playing. I'm with you on the barrel jacks, by far my favorite jacks, hopefully you can use that on your guitar. I am the same as you in planning out the steps, I find it helpful. I also like the magnetic cover idea, I just did one a few weeks ago and used a few too many and can barely get the cover off, lol. Never realized how strong those tiny little magnets could be. What type of material will the cover be made from?

Where did you get the SS frets from? I really want to go that route, but I just couldn't do it, not at least until I feel comfortable with fretting in general. I like the caul you made, pretty cool stuff I thought. I'm probably just going to use an arbor press instead of the drill press, just because I know I'll end up breaking it somehow. Harbor freights puts the arbor presses on sale sometimes, so I've been watching the ads weekly, hopefully it goes on sale before I get to fretting which is soon. Anyhow, looking good and can't wait to see how it turns out. Keep the progress pics and reports coming. Best of luck. J

[Xanthus]

Oooh, if you can get a straight arbor press, definitely go that route! I did a press for the drill because I have a ton of the material lying around. I tested it on the scrap fretboard, and it seems to work well. Not as nice/intricate as Setch's homemade press, I'd like a self-leveling feature. Now I'm sitting here with my nice homemade $0.00 fret press GLARING at my $16 stewmac hammer. $16 can buy a lot of sandpaper.....

I ordered the small-size SS wire from LMII. It's super slick, and DAMN tiny! My dream fretwire, reminds me of old Gibson/Fender size, with a nice sheen.

For my first guitar, I did the cover with 4 neo's hammered into drill holes, and I snipped off the tops of a few nails and nailed the heads into the body. I'll think of something more elegant for this build, or rather, take more time with the process. I took a AA battery and wrapped it in sandpaper to sand out the fingernail hole so I could get it off. Some builders I've seen drilled a small hole in the cover itself, and remove it with an allen wrench. But seriously, how often do you need to remove the cover? My cover will be mahogany, to match the wood, even if I paint it a solid color. I suppose to make it easier with the magnet situation, you could make the cover out of sheet metal/aluminum.

I know what you mean about feeling comfortable with the fretting process, so I'm kinda lucky that I have a spare fretboard and 2 extra feet of wire to work with. I just hope to whatever's holy that I don't need to dress/crown/level the frets, because it's SS and I simply don't have the tools for it. Otherwise, I'll finish up the fret job using the tutorial method on the main page. Depending on how this goes, I might make a tutorial myself on building a neckthrough. Being a neckthrough lover myself, I'm surprised there isn't one up. Maybe I'll fix that, now that I have a REAL camera.

Thanks for the wishes! Keeping everyone posted

[Xanthus]

UPDATE

Did the fretting tonight, and it went off without a hitch! Everything looks nice and level, according to my eye and a trusty straightedge. I'm going to buy a trustiER ruler soon, maybe bring it down to a luthier my uncle knows to have him look it over with his professional tools. Heh, pro tools

Next up: Creating one of these bad boys, and snipping the fret ends with a dremel. I also bought some mahogany and am letting it acclimate before I work on it.

Meanwhile, I wanted to know if anyone had an opinion on this neckthrough construction method. Part of me thinks it's a bit of spin and/or tonal hoodoo, but in either case, it's sound reasoning and easy enough to accomplish, as well as it looks nice. Because the dimensions for the V body are so ridiculously enormous, I would have to glue on the sides one wing at a time, so there would be a glue join on the face of the guitar. Not a huge deal, I can throw in a strip of something-or-other if I feel like it. Just wanted people's opinions, but in either case I don't think I'll have time to work on any more body planning until after turkey day.

Pics should be up on the fotki either tomorrow or Tuesday.

[phoenix_rising]

Looks Great! Keep it up!

Edited November 12, 2007 by phoenix_rising

[Xanthus]

Yo, pics are up!

http://public.fotki.com/xanthus/build-2/page2.html

They start on page 2 and spill over onto page 3. I got the fretting, filing, beveling, and sanding done in one weekend, with enough time left over to get the headstock up to 85% or so completion and rough out the back of the neck as much as the router base would let me. Surprisingly enough, the whole process, once I got into the rhythm, took no time at all, and was very very easy. I'm so pleased with the results! My uncle knows a luthier who refretted his bass, I might take the board to him if it needs some final fretwork, but otherwise it looks really good.

Does anyone have any tips to get the scratches out of the tops of the frets? I was careful, I really was but I still ended up with some marks from the file slipping off the side of the board.

You can notice on pic 33 (they number the pictures now! Convenience!) that the veneer isn't 100% parallel with the fretboard, so the nut slot is a bit thicker on one side than the other. I'm planning on gluing in a piece of veneer there, and routing it out or perhaps doing it before I glue, so the nut will sit at the proper height.

Also, pic 32 shows I had a little fuss with the drill. I didn't realize that the headstock wasn't 100% flush with the wood I was drilling into, before I clamped it down. So when the drill poked out the underside, it kicked the headstock up and chipped the edge of the hole I was drilling. I'll fill with putty and smooth it out. The reason the headstock wasn't perfectly flat was because the arch of the volute started pretty early, raising the whole thing up on an angle.

What would people's opinions be if I went back and filled the fret slot ends with a dab of CA? There's a gap between the bottom of the fret slot and the bottom of the fret tang.

Planning to plane, sand, biscuit, and glue at least one of the wings over the vacation. Stay tuned...

::EDIT::

PS. What's a good quality, but inexpensive TOM/tail set? I'm looking at the Gotoh set from Warmoth. Seems to be the best deal for a Gotoh.

[Xanthus]

UPDATE

Over the fantastic week of turkey murdering, I got a lot of work done down the basement. I squared up the neck sides, glued the top wing, cut it out, leveled the front and back, and took a router to clean up the sides. There's still a fair amount of hand sanding to do, especially where the router didn't quite get down the side of the body (about 1/4" all around), but progress has been made! Pics will be up when I'm back on campus.

So now I'm moving on to what I think will be the hardest part of the build: drilling my crazy cord jack. Observe:

http://public.fotki.com/Xanthus/build-2/rhoadsjack2.html

Because of my propensity to use right angle cords and my refusal to switch cords during a show except in an emergency, I needed to find a way to incorporate a right angle jack setup onto the V. The pic is the result of my planning. I'm going to drill/route/chisel a channel into the side of the wing, where I can hook up my right angle jack and have it not bump my knee when I'm playing, and not have to stick it behind my strap to prevent it from moving. I'm planning on doing the drilling on my dad's lathe, because the drill press doesn't have an adjustable table. The lathe will also allow me to lay the body horizontally, which I'm much more comfortable with in the first place. This is what I'm thinking:

1. Pilot hole 1/8" diameter into the wing for the jack

2. Use a 5/8" spade bit to follow pilot hole halfway in for jack recess

3. 1/2" bit to insert the jack itself

4. Another 1/8" pilot hole at a right angle to the first, for the strap

5. Another 5/8" spade hole to break through to the original hole

6. Remove the small triangle separating the two spade holes with a chisel

7. Hog out jack wiring cavity with drill press

8. Clean up cavity with router

9. Route lip for neodymium magnets to hold cover on

10. drill wire channel to connect jack cavity to control cavity

And in 10 easy steps you too can have an absurdly complicated output jack setup! The side cavity itself will not be visible from the front or back, and the tight diameter of the holes drilled will prevent the cord from moving, thereby allowing for better strap placement. The green circles on the photo are possible strap button placements, because placing the strap button on the side of the wing will be too unbalanced, especially with the jack setup taking up the usual strap spot.

All in all, I'm predicting either abysmal failure or shining success. Maybe this will be the future of flying v's to come? :-P We can all dream.

[westhemann]

Where you have the jack planned is the spot you should be putting your strap button.Otherwise it won't balance right.

Ever think about putting it on the upper vee section,behind the guitar?KXK does that,he uses a strat styly jack plate,and it is very comfortable and never pulls out if you step on it.

[Xanthus]

I was planning on putting the strap button on the back of the guitar, lining it up with the button on the front. I think it will balance fine.

I checked out the kxk website, and found a picture of what you're talking about. To be able to use that setup would be fantastic, but it wouldn't work with my right-angled jack. I've been thinking it over, and it is a ton of work, so I'm trying to think of alternatives. I've got a regular non-barrel jack from my EMG set, so it wouldn't be a problem to run out and get a jack plate, if need be. I'm just brainstorming with myself, trying to think of other ways to get around my right-angle conundrum.

[digi2t]

Sucka looks fast just parked there... Go for it dude.

[Xanthus]

Shameless bump 5 new pics up from my last venture down to the basement. Biscuited and glued the top wing, bandsawed it, leveled the front and back, and started the rough shaping. I'm seriously considering getting a robosander drum or two, if only to do the bottom swoosh of the wings. It'd just make things so much simpler.

I DO have to do the swoosh on the top wing, however, so I can get underway with this crazy jack output thing. I'm more and more convinced that I can handle it, especially because I can use the lathe as a drill press (also described above). I'm going to try and place the rear strap button in line with the front button, and both buttons will more than likely still be on the back. I'm crossing my fingers, I'm more in love with trying to keep the project natural, because it looks so nice just sitting there. I've been inspired by Stewey's RG build and the way the woods go together.

Jeez, I used to like everything painted a straight black. What's become of this metalhead??? I feel like such a guitar elitist Soon I'll be building with flamed this and quilted that!

In other news, does anyone else think that the singer from Opeth sounds a bit like the guy from Stone Sour? I was just listening to "Hours of Wealth." Or maybe more like the guy from Evergrey. It's good stuff.

Finals over soon, massive progress over winter break.

[AprilEthereal777]

In other news, does anyone else think that the singer from Opeth sounds a bit like the guy from Stone Sour? I was just listening to "Hours of Wealth." Or maybe more like the guy from Evergrey. It's good stuff.

Mikael Akerfeldt has THE best voice in metal today without question. The clean vocals you are referring to are full of tone with awesome warmth....man that dude can sing.....his greatest talent however is to switch from the clean vocals to the best melodic growl in metal . I saw Stonesour play in Melbourne Australia earlier this year and must admit I think I have become a bit 'old school'....that JUMP METAL or STOMP METAL thing they do is just not my thing....in my day (circa 1998 - 1992) we just banged our heads and moshed!!!!....his voice is ok I suppose but when he started playing INXS covers I thought, metal?....not on your life...this dude's on his own trip, good luck to him, but it ain't mine......enjoy Opeth, get into My Arms Your Hearse when you can, that rox!!!!!

[Xanthus]

I actually think my roommate has My Arms... I'll have to get it from him when I get a chance.

[Xanthus]

Got a bit of work done over the vacation thus far!

-Made another template for the inside curve of the top wing, the first one didn't come out as well as I'd originally hopes

-Sanded the upper wing to shape with aid of the template and robosander (awesome tool! Why didn't I get one earlier???)

-drilled the hole for the strap button, I put it as close to the middle of the V as I was comfortable with, watching out for Right Knee Access

-drilled for the jack using the lathe drill

----Forstner bits are god.

----I drilled a straight jack for this one, I gave up on my convoluted right-angle method.

----I realized that using a straight jack isn't all that BAD, and certainly nothing to be so stubborn about.

----It was super easy, and in hindsight, I could have easily done the right-angle method no problem.

----Oh well. It looks classy and Ibanez S-Series-esque.

----I might take the forstner in a bit deeper if I feel like recessing the jack more. I'll have to bring my cord down and see how the depth is.

I had a few questions for you guys last night, but I seem to have forgotten them... With coming of age apparently comes loss of memory *shrug* I'll plumb the depths and see if I can dredge up a few questions.

Dunno when my pics are going to get up. I really need to get a multi-card reader for mein comp. Or just start using a regular camera.

Next on the menu is routing the jack access panel in the back of the body, leaving a lip for the magnets to sit on. Also included is drilling the wire tunnel from the jack cavity to the proposed electronics cavity, and if I act now, I can order the bridge/tailpiece from Warmoth and cut out the lower wing and prep it for glue.

I'll most likely update this later tonight, keeping everyone posted.

::EDIT::

I remembered one of my questions: What's the best method for gluing on the lower wing? It's triangular, and I'll be clamping it to the body, which is also triangular. I'm thinking of using the dowel method instead of biscuits to ensure that the two don't move, but how to clamp? Should I make up the angle to parallel with more triangular pieces? And how to affix them and make sure they stay and don't slide on me?

::EDIT AGAIN::

Hogged and routed the very tiny jack cavity, and used a Dremel to do the cover surround. Because I was getting really close to where the bevels will cut into, I offset the cover away from the edge. I'll put two magnets on the inside edge, and a thumb hole/ledge on the top outside corner, leaving the bottom outside corner (the danger zone) free.

Unfortunately, I didn't like the way the Dremel was going, so I taped off the recess area and did the edges with a chisel. The corners are so-so. I never have good luck with chisels, I don't know why I use them so often. So the corners are a bit chipped and there's one chip on the inside edge. I'm debating on how to fix them, seeing as I would LOVE to keep this project natural and just tung oil it. I scraped together a baggie of mahog dust, I might use the glue-and-sawdust method later on.

Also marked out the path to send my drillbit from the electronics cavity to the jack cavity. 10" long bits ROCK!