weaponepsilon Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 So, let me start this off to say that I am not incompetent. I think... I picked up a Crestwood (whoever) bass acoustic guitar as a project. I didn't have the cash to throw at a new or used acoustic bass (like $300) so I figured for the price I'll go find a nice project. I found a brand new, unused bass with only one teensy little problem: some yo-yo at the factory placed the bridge like a regular guitar and not in a bass scale. That said, I promptly taped off the area around the bridge and laid a little fabric over the bridge and grabbed the iron. I gently pried the bridge off and noticed that it was bolted all the way through! D'oh! So, I removed the bolts and did some careful measurements and lined the bridge up to the correct scale position. I carefully drilled new positional bolt holes only to find that one of the holes was drilled into the bracing! D'oh!! Although the other hole missed the brace by a hair, do I now have to plug those two holes, sand and redrill? Am I screwed, do I give in? I know pretty much that I have to use a thin layer of filler on the exposed wood where the bridge formally sat, maybe laquer over some cool artwork or something, but this little project that was supposed to be cake has taken on a life of its own. Suggestions helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 So, let me start this off to say that I am not incompetent. I think... I picked up a Crestwood (whoever) bass acoustic guitar as a project. I didn't have the cash to throw at a new or used acoustic bass (like $300) so I figured for the price I'll go find a nice project. I found a brand new, unused bass with only one teensy little problem: some yo-yo at the factory placed the bridge like a regular guitar and not in a bass scale. That said, I promptly taped off the area around the bridge and laid a little fabric over the bridge and grabbed the iron. I gently pried the bridge off and noticed that it was bolted all the way through! D'oh! So, I removed the bolts and did some careful measurements and lined the bridge up to the correct scale position. I carefully drilled new positional bolt holes only to find that one of the holes was drilled into the bracing! D'oh!! Although the other hole missed the brace by a hair, do I now have to plug those two holes, sand and redrill? Am I screwed, do I give in? I know pretty much that I have to use a thin layer of filler on the exposed wood where the bridge formally sat, maybe laquer over some cool artwork or something, but this little project that was supposed to be cake has taken on a life of its own. Suggestions helpful. Your project is confusing to me. First, If this is a manufactured guitar, with a bass scale length neck and frets. Why would it be off(and by that I mean enough that you would have to reposition the bridge itself)? If the bass bridge was just slightly misplaced, why would you hit bracing when adjusting the location? Pictures and maybe a model # would be helpful. If this is a project where you intend to take a regular acoustic and just move things around. Your bracing will NOT be placed correctly to support the bridge. Acoustics are designed to be what they are. Pictures would help. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 maybe I'm crazy but does this look right? So the neck is 34" scale, but the bridge is at a 32" scale. Am I just crazy, do I need to look again? I compared it to my other 34" scale basses and the frets and whatnot line up perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Here is a simple question, does it intonate properly and play the correct notes? If not, than the scale is off. If the frets match up with your other 34" scale guitars but the bridge is 2" forward something is definitely wrong. I wonder how that bass ever got out of the factory. Thats the single worst blunder I've ever heard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 That would be a huge factory blunder(and I am not even sure how it could happen), and I would be shocked if that was the case. I mean you are not paying squat for any kind of quality control, but even with a toy guitar(not saying this is a toy bass, thought I better be clear on that) an untrained laborer would use some form of template to make placement quicker. Can you take a picture of the entire neck to bridge with the ruler setting in place. Peace,Rich P.S. Before you do any work. Check the tuning as Daniel mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegarehanman Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 Is your ruler missing the first 2" of measurement? Because that would mean the 12th fret is actually 15" from the nut and the bridge is 30" from the nut. hahaha...but seriously, check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted August 27, 2007 Report Share Posted August 27, 2007 yeah lets have a full pic, not that anyone is doubting you but this really needs to be seen to be beleived!!! then help.. Personally if it was a cheap project i would consider re-topping it anyway -its loads of fun and a good way to practice some of the skills needed in acoustic building and hopefully will give you something far beyond the bass you started with. You would have to change the bracing design to accomodate the correct bridge position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 (edited) Here is a full pic of the guitar. Keep in mind that the yard stick is 36" in length. It's not the best, but you can make out the inch marks indicating the bridge is indeed four marks from the end. Edited August 28, 2007 by weaponepsilon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 How much did you pay for it? Can you go punch the vendor in the junk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richiehamilton Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 I too find it hard to believe this was a factory blunder. Is there any chance that this was a misinformed frankenstein attempt- i.e. somebody who thought they could just throw a bass neck on a 6 string body? But from your picture it appears to be an unadulteratd 4 string bridge. Is the neck join dovetailed? Very curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Yeah, I scoured ebay for a good cheap acoustic bass as it is something I kinda could use. The local guitar shops really didnt have any selection and the only one I could find was an Ibanez for $300. Begrumbled, I come across this puppy for $80. Came new, I got an EQ and acoustic pickup as well. I figured if it was going to be a bridge move, I't woudln't be a big deal(yeah right.) The seller sells a TON of parts and complete instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Send him this picture and explain to him what will happen if you don't get the bridge fixed properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Jeebis, he's not just punching him in the junk, he's stealing the peach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Yeah, I bought this a while ago so I don't think it is going to be as simple. Plus I bought it because it was cheap and it was listed a "project, needs bridge repositioned" I mainly do work on solid bodies and didn't account for it to be such a pain do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 Is the top braced with a typical X braced pattern? When you move it back 2" does the bridge still set on the main X or is it setting between the mains? When you move the bridge back 2" does it still set on the bridge plate or is it now set behind the bridge plate(if it is partially on top of the bridge plate would the pin holes still be through the bridge plate?). If the top was braced for the location where the bridge was setting. You may very well be better off removing and making a new soundboard. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 which isnt as daunting as it sounds!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 28, 2007 Report Share Posted August 28, 2007 which isnt as daunting as it sounds!!! Did I make that sound daunting It is not that hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted August 29, 2007 Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 i didnt mean it that way. I did a few of these as fun projects years ago and i remember the first time i did it it was easier than i expected. Because i treated them as fun rather than a serious build i didnt worry about perfection - just chucked them together really.... but they always sounded a hell of a lot better than than they should My point was that re-topping and getting it perfect would be a lot of work and a bit more daunting. personally, since the aim was to have a cheap, working acoustic bass i wouldnt worry about the aesthetics like rosettes and even binding and i would focus on getting it working properly. That means making a soundboard and bracing, taking the bass apart and putting it back together again, easy peasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2007 Is the top braced with a typical X braced pattern? When you move it back 2" does the bridge still set on the main X or is it setting between the mains? When you move the bridge back 2" does it still set on the bridge plate or is it now set behind the bridge plate(if it is partially on top of the bridge plate would the pin holes still be through the bridge plate?). If the top was braced for the location where the bridge was setting. You may very well be better off removing and making a new soundboard. Peace,Rich In the order of questioning, yes, no, there is like a double x design. The new bridge location sits on top of the second x. like this. +.\ \...../ /...|..\ \...../ / N ..\ \../ /..o|....\ \../ /o <(new screw holes) E ....\ \ /....|......\ \/ / C ..../ / \..o|....../ /.\ \.o <(new screwholes) K .. / /..\ \..|..../ /...\ \ + ./ /.....\ \.|../ /......\ \ (1st x)^ ^(plate) ^(2nd x) I hope this crappy diagram helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted August 30, 2007 Report Share Posted August 30, 2007 Is the top braced with a typical X braced pattern? When you move it back 2" does the bridge still set on the main X or is it setting between the mains? When you move the bridge back 2" does it still set on the bridge plate or is it now set behind the bridge plate(if it is partially on top of the bridge plate would the pin holes still be through the bridge plate?). If the top was braced for the location where the bridge was setting. You may very well be better off removing and making a new soundboard. Peace,Rich In the order of questioning, yes, no, there is like a double x design. The new bridge location sits on top of the second x. like this. +.\ \...../ /...|..\ \...../ / N ..\ \../ /..o|....\ \../ /o <(new screw holes) E ....\ \ /....|......\ \/ / C ..../ / \..o|....../ /.\ \.o <(new screwholes) K .. / /..\ \..|..../ /...\ \ + ./ /.....\ \.|../ /......\ \ (1st x)^ ^(plate) ^(2nd x) I hope this crappy diagram helps. I see, So the new location will not have a bridge plate below the bridge(and you will need to add a plate). The second X beiing placed so close to the main X would indicate it is placed to contend with the twisting forces generated at the pinned bridge. Now you will not have that added reinforcement behind the bridge. If it is similar to a standard X with a secondary smaller X behind the bridge. You will have less support ahead of the bridge from the main X , but then again you have the old bridge plate that will increase the strength(so it may be even be braced stronger than ever). You could attempt to relocate and reinforce the soundboard(really the other option is to re-top, so giving this top a shot can't hurt). I would build a new bridge palte, and prepair a new crossing brace behind the new bridge location. If you string it up and all seems fine, but you find the top is damped by the extra bracing. You could attempt some stratigic shaving to try to free it back up(although I would be conservative, as the bracing placement will not be optimal). The biggest downer is that the soundboard really benifits from a tight coupling between the main X(which acts to transmit energy from the bridge across the top). If you can try to regain some of that coupling through the new bridge plate or added bracing behind the bridge, that would be nice. Should be a challenge, but sounds like a fun one. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted August 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2007 Actually both of the x braces are the same size and length. See when I drilled the new holes, I came too close to the bracing on the second x for the one hole and the other was drilled into the bracing. I was hoping to plug both holes and redrill. I could put together a second bridge plate, but the area is hard to determine the dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weaponepsilon Posted July 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Well, It's been close to a year and I still never touched this project, so I placed this in the classifieds. If anyone is interested... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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