newbie22 Posted December 12, 2007 Report Share Posted December 12, 2007 im getting an engl e520 and i have read that to get a really good modern metal sound out of it you need a 6l6 power amp. i was looking at a marshall 20/20 but i believe el84 based poweramps are better for 80s metal. could i swap the tubes out for something a little more 'metal'? i dont know a hell of a lot about tube amps, in fact the engl will be my first, so i could be wrong here. any advice would be appreciated. the reason i want a 20/20 is simply because i dont think i'll be playing wembley anytime soon and i really want to push the tubes when i am playing. thanks joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoughtless 7 Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) I'm no expert, but if an amp comes with EL34s chances are it will need BIASing for 6L6s. I know there are a few amps that can use both (the Laney GH50L for one) but they are few and fare between. Some amps do have a trimpot installed so all you have to go is find the right voltage and turn the trimpot to it, others are a little more complex and may require soldering of resistors. Even a 20watt valve amp is hard to push at reasonable volumes, i've got a 1/2watt valve amp and i can't turn that past 2 without it becoming over-loud. You might want to ask Wez about metal sounding amps. I know he likes loud (as in 100watt +, more head room) because he doesn't like the sound of power amps breaking up...all preference. Edited December 13, 2007 by Thoughtless 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yep, different people have different opinions on this, and that’s a good thing. Two ratings I have never had a lot of confidence in, waistband measurements on trousers and wattage ratings on amps. A few times I have used a 50 watt Marshall and I have turned it all the way up to 10 in a medium sized room, no problem, they don’t seem that loud to me. I find a 100 watt Marshall to be roughly 2.5 times as loud as a 50 watt, but everyone else tells me they are only 1.5 times as loud. You’re absolutely right other lower wattage amps seem louder than their rating suggests. I love the sound of power tubes maxed out. It’s a lovely smooth, sustain for days that you can feel in your guts. I don’t think that power amp distortion or even tubes are essential for the modern metal sound, so there are ways of getting that tone without 6L6s as an essential part of the equation. A lot of the sound is in the tuning and strings on the guitar, tune it down, get some nice tight response overdrive happening boost the bass and the mod metal tone should happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth guitars Posted December 13, 2007 Report Share Posted December 13, 2007 The EL84 is a great tube, it was specifically designed for audio applications. Not sure if you can state that it is specific to a genre of music. That would be more to the amp overall and much less for just a power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 You might want to ask Wez about metal sounding amps. I know he likes loud (as in 100watt +, more head room) because he doesn't like the sound of power amps breaking up...all preference. Which one,me or Wezv? Sounds like me...I push the preamp hard but keep the power amp moderate,just before power tube soak levels...I still have to push the speakers hard though,to get the thing to really "roll"( I don't know how to say it) for palm muting.Keep in mind though,I am a speed/thrash metal guy,none of that "modern metal" heavy bottom end stuff for me. I use an Engl powerball...it is a head,100 watt...but I play at what most would consider a painful volume.Kids stick their fingers in their ears and wince. Depending on the size of the room,a 20/20 might do you,but isn't that a stereo power amp?Or is it two channel?I never have seen the use for a stereo guitar amp,because you are only playing one instrument through it at a time. As a general sort of "rule of thumb",the faster I am playing rythm,the less gain I want at a volume the speakers can handle,so it doesn't get mushy...I like it pretty crisp,and I don't find power tube soak to lend itself to that too well.I hear that Kerry King likes power tube breakup though,so I guess that means it depends on alot of factors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yep there are lots of different ways to get cool and varied sounds. Some preamps can produce thick sounds that don't need any power amp clipping. On the other hand using a Variac to lower the voltage into the amp can work the power tubes and still keep plenty of snappy attack for fast picking. The 20/20 would be a stereo amp but it should be able to be bridged to make a mono 40 watt power amp. I am way too lazy to use a stereo amp but I have heard some guitarists use it to great effect with chorus and delay modulation panning between the channels. What sort of thrash/speed metal bands are you into Wes? I really dig intricate leads with melody, Gary Moore on the Over the Hills album really sends me to another place and Mick Ronson, LA Guns, Metallica, Stryper, George Lynch, Brian May and Warren Di Martini all have the technique that I like. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie22 Posted December 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 good stuff. thanks for all the info. did a bit of research myself and you'd be hard pushed to get a 20/20 with anything other than el84s and i may well just go with the marshall. cant be that bad, right? and if it is im sure it wouldn't be too much of a hastle to change them out. anyway, its on the back burner for a bit since im moving out in january and theres a million other things to get before i can satiate my gear lust:) thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 What sort of thrash/speed metal bands are you into Wes? I am more into the rythm side of things...I do like a good soloist,but it isn't a prerequisite for me.Those bands you mention or not my style,I am into the more Exodus/Slayer/testament/Lamb of God/Megadeth sort of stuff. My personal stuff though(what I write) is more leaning towards a bit more aggresive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) One tiny bit of overlap between this set of influences Gary Moore, Mick Ronson, LA Guns, Metallica, Stryper, George Lynch, Brian May and Warren Di Martini and this one I am into the more Exodus/Slayer/testament/Lamb of God/Megadeth sort of stuff. A member of a band named in set 2 used to play in a band named in set 1. Anybody get any good guitar gear for Christmas? Edited December 29, 2007 by Muzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 A member of a band named in set 2 used to play in a band named in set 1. You mean Mustaine?I am old enough that I remember when that happened...But are you aware that Kirk Hammett came from Exodus?Or is that who you were referring to and you forgot about Mustaine? I am a big fan of old Metallica(in the 80s...nothing since.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Hey, more overlap than I thought. I did not know that Kirk Hammet was in Exodus before Metallica, yes it was Dave Mustaine I was thinking about. I haven’t listened to much from Exodus except that awesome version of ‘Bitch’ on the ‘Paint it Black’ album. Rawwwk solo and the stereo throb effect on the guitars is fantastic, if you listen to it loud on headphones it feels like your brain is being massaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewu22 Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hey, more overlap than I thought. I did not know that Kirk Hammet was in Exodus before Metallica, yes it was Dave Mustaine I was thinking about. I haven’t listened to much from Exodus except that awesome version of ‘Bitch’ on the ‘Paint it Black’ album. Rawwwk solo and the stereo throb effect on the guitars is fantastic, if you listen to it loud on headphones it feels like your brain is being massaged. Exodus, very cool people to hang out with. Opened for them in 1990 on the on the Fab Disaster tour, 1 date. It was a reception hall for gods sake Had a lot of fun that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Fabulous disaster was a GREAT album... Seems as if everybody but me gets to meet these great musicians.....I never meet anybody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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