want2design Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Hi again, I am a newbie to the whole guitar hardware scene, so you'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge in this department. Basically, I purchased the EMG-HZ4 (neck) and the EMG-HZ4A (bridge) to put into a guitar I am planning on buying. I noticed that a lot of the good custom guitars (especially ESP) have the EMG 81 sets. I probably would have purchased a EMG 81 set, but they were not available on the website I was ordering my parts from. From what I understand the EMG 81's are active (requires an energy source from the battery), where as the EMG-HZ4's are passive (requires no energy source). The EMG website describes the EMG-HZ4 as the following: It is the equivalent of EMG's 81 Active Pickup without the "Active". Fair enough. So it is my understanding that the EMG-HZ4's are basically the same pickup as the EMG 81's, only without the battery being required? If this is the case, why is it that custom shops are opting to use the EMG 81's as opposed to the EMG-HZ4's? Also, is it best to have the EMG-HZ4 in the neck position, and the EMG-HZ4A in the bridge position? Thanks in advance for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 basicly just cause the 81's have been tried, tested and true over the years, and the HZ are pretty new to the market, also it's my impression the HZ line was developed as more of a lower priced version of the active line. the HZ4 isn't the same pickup as the 81 with no red wire, it's build completely different, bigger magnets, coils, and no preamp so you can't really hotwire a HZ pickup to be and active one, or mix and match the emg&hz lines. They're just refering to the sound similarities. As such i'm not sure if you can put the pickup as close to the strings. Speedy was quite happy with his HZ pickups cause of the coil tapping posibilities available on all models as opposed to only the active 89. So he'll have some good feedback now that he's been playing them for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 the EMG81 is used on higher range guitars because it has superior sound quality, and is able to drive long lengths (transmission lines) of lead without losing the treble respose, and getting a duller sound. the EMG81 has a low impedance output, being 10K ohms, where the other EMG HZ4 will have an output of typically 250-500K ohms. The EMG 81 can drive line (CD or TAPE or AUX) style imputs, without the need for a pre-amp. also, on a safety note the EMG81 do not earth to your strings, so they are safer, electrically, and are also lower noise than the HZ4 hope this helps mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 i like the hz4s. i have a ZW set in one of my guitars, and hz's in another, and i like the hz better for the versitility they provide. i can wire my hz's any way you can think of, so you maintain a bunch of tones and styles. they are quite quiet if you shield them correctly, and they have an ecapsulated inner shield so they are very capable of being play under floresent lights. derek was right about the hight though, you have to think of these as a normal passive pick up, because they are passive. the hz's are more my style for various reasons, and one of the best things about them is that little quick connect deal they have. i am planning on trying a new set on pay day. i also want to try out the single coils too. i think if you can get over the panache of having 81's and actually listened to the hz's in a good guitar through a good amp, you will be very pleased with the versitility they provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 the EMG81... is able to drive long lengths (transmission lines) of lead without losing the treble respose, and getting a duller sound. the EMG81 has a low impedance output, being 10K ohms, where the other EMG HZ4 will have an output of typically 250-500K ohms. I very much doubt the HZ4 has such a high impedance. Please give me a link to those specs. Most passive pickups hover around 10K ohms. I've seen some high output ones at 17K ohms. My DiMarzio FRED is around 10K and my other two pickups are around 5K. You are correct though that the active pickups will not suffer as much treble loss because the coils inductance does not react with the capacitance of a lead since there is a pre-amp between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2design Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 You guys don't fill me with confidence, I feel like I made a stupid decision by buying them. Unfortunately, I don't understand how to shield them correctly, as I have never replaced pickups before. Like I said, I'm very new to the whole hardware scene, and I am finding it difficult to understand some of the methods of doing various tasks. If the sound of the EMG-HZ4's are anywhere near similar to the EMG-81's, then I am happy, but if that's not the case, well I guess I made the wrong decision. Explain a few things to me: - Why is the distance between the pickup and the strings so important? - What is the impedance output and how does it effect the pickup/guitar? - What is drive line (CD or TAPE or AUX) style imputs? - Why is earthing the strings so dangerous? Why would EMG make a dangerous product? - What is a pre-amp (as opposed to a normal amp)? I have just been reading some reviews, and it seems that the EMG-81 is in fact, still the better pickup of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 1. the distance from the pick up to the strings is very important because of the magnetic field created by the pick up. when the strings move within this magnetic field it creates an electric current, this in turn creates the sound you hear. if the strings are too far away from this field, or out of it entirely, then you'll have weak output, and if they are too close then it will interfear with the string movement, thus making it sound out of tune, or like complete ****. 2. impeadence is kind of hard for me to explain, think of it as noise. the less noise the quieter, thus more noise = a hotter pick up, if someone else could explain this better in reference to pick ups please due. 3. line level is a different level of output. it is a much weaker signal, like the rca cables on the back of a tv. they are red and white. well these are also a much cleaner signal, and with it being quieter also, it makes it possible to plug directly into a computer sound card and not be distorted, or too loud for the input. 4. earthing or grounding the strings is not dangerous, in fact if you didn't ground the strings via the bridge it would buzz you right out of your room. grounding makes the noise go away, and shielding makes the quiet quieter. they are refering to a malfunctioning tube amp sending the electricity to the ground of the guitar instead of its cable or chassis ground. electricity fallows the path of least resitance, this being you, and ZZAAPP!!! so if you were to put a proper shield or a capacitor in the input cahin of a guitar, it would protect you from such an insident. 5. a preamp is a way of controling the output of an electronic source. it is like your guitar amp there is a pre amp, which controls the EQ, and the gain, and it make the intial output, then this signal goes to the power amp, which controls volume of the amp. so if you had an active pick up, you would need a way to make the very quiet output of the pick up louder and you wanted to adjust or set the EQ levels then the pre amp is the way. the pre amp is just the first amp, hence PRE-amp. and the reviews are mostly by EMG snobs, they are the same people that say "Vintage" guitars are better because they were first. the HZ4 and the 81 sound very similar, but the passive HZs allow you to wire it however you wanted, ie coiltap, out or in phase, parallel or in series. however the passives are still passive, so they are a little noisier, but propper shielding will make this an almost moot point. does this explain anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2design Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Ok, yeah it does. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write that out for me. I do have a few other questions however: - With the pickup height, is it basically just experimental to see which height works best? - In relation to the capacitor, are these already in place on commercial guitars? For example, I am buying a Les Paul Special II, and just replacing the Humbuckers with the EMG-HZ4's. Would this require re-wiring the internals? I purchased a tape on wiring a Gibson guitar, so that will probably tell me what's going on anyways (hopefully). - In relation to shielding, is there any links you can provide me on how to do such a thing correctly? I can't say I'm really keen on being shocked, lol. Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 the EMG81... is able to drive long lengths (transmission lines) of lead without losing the treble respose, and getting a duller sound. the EMG81 has a low impedance output, being 10K ohms, where the other EMG HZ4 will have an output of typically 250-500K ohms. I very much doubt the HZ4 has such a high impedance. Please give me a link to those specs. Most passive pickups hover around 10K ohms. I've seen some high output ones at 17K ohms. My DiMarzio FRED is around 10K and my other two pickups are around 5K. You are correct though that the active pickups will not suffer as much treble loss because the coils inductance does not react with the capacitance of a lead since there is a pre-amp between them. the hz 4 is around 13-14.not 250 -500...that is the pot specs for passive vs active. i don't like the h4.i had one in an alder guitar of mine and it had lots of unwanted microphonics.but i play high gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 1. the distance from the pick up to the strings is very important because of the magnetic field created by the pick up. when the strings move within this magnetic field it creates an electric current, this in turn creates the sound you hear. if the strings are too far away from this field, or out of it entirely, then you'll have weak output, and if they are too close then it will interfear with the string movement, thus making it sound out of tune, or like complete ****. 2. impeadence is kind of hard for me to explain, think of it as noise. the less noise the quieter, thus more noise = a hotter pick up, if someone else could explain this better in reference to pick ups please due. 3. line level is a different level of output. it is a much weaker signal, like the rca cables on the back of a tv. they are red and white. well these are also a much cleaner signal, and with it being quieter also, it makes it possible to plug directly into a computer sound card and not be distorted, or too loud for the input. 4. earthing or grounding the strings is not dangerous, in fact if you didn't ground the strings via the bridge it would buzz you right out of your room. grounding makes the noise go away, and shielding makes the quiet quieter. they are refering to a malfunctioning tube amp sending the electricity to the ground of the guitar instead of its cable or chassis ground. electricity fallows the path of least resitance, this being you, and ZZAAPP!!! so if you were to put a proper shield or a capacitor in the input cahin of a guitar, it would protect you from such an insident. 5. a preamp is a way of controling the output of an electronic source. it is like your guitar amp there is a pre amp, which controls the EQ, and the gain, and it make the intial output, then this signal goes to the power amp, which controls volume of the amp. so if you had an active pick up, you would need a way to make the very quiet output of the pick up louder and you wanted to adjust or set the EQ levels then the pre amp is the way. the pre amp is just the first amp, hence PRE-amp. and the reviews are mostly by EMG snobs, they are the same people that say "Vintage" guitars are better because they were first. the HZ4 and the 81 sound very similar, but the passive HZs allow you to wire it however you wanted, ie coiltap, out or in phase, parallel or in series. however the passives are still passive, so they are a little noisier, but propper shielding will make this an almost moot point. does this explain anything? speedy is correct on all counts.and you will find SIMILAR sounds from the hz4.but the small difference in shrillness and microphonics at high gain andvolume are what i don't like. i am no "snob" but i do not like the hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 in response to Saber i was thinkin of the pots for passives there, sorry, iit was bloody late!! your right mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 - In relation to shielding, is there any links you can provide me on how to do such a thing correctly? I can't say I'm really keen on being shocked, lol. Guitarnuts.com has an excellent guitar shielding tutorial called "quieting the beast" that includes a honkin' capacitor or something that protects the player from shocks from tube amps. Don't worry about wasting money on the H4's, you'll probably love them if you're not playing a 300W amp ( wes) and even if you end up replacing them later on, they're still identical in size to the real emg's so you could use them as shop pickups if u ever try to make a body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 also in reply to shielding there is a special paint, i think it may be copper paint or something, i cant remember. this is good for shielding, my ibanez has it. mike i used some dbl sided sticky tape and tin foil to shield parts of my kit lp, be very careful not to short stuff out, and earth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 my amp is 350 watts.not 300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 i wasn't pertaining to the people who have a valid reason for not liking the HZs. Wes i'm pretty sure you have tried out several types of pick ups, (as have most of us) before you found one that works for your style. the snob remark is for all of the guys who have never heard or played them, but for the soul fact they are not their trusty 81's. i like the active pick ups, they are great, i really like the 85 and the 89. i was just arguing the other side of the fence, it's greener over here by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 actually the active side of the fence is just a little bit greener and...well...more active Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy McFeely Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 guess i'm just PASSIVE aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 .... i guess that makes me an active passivist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 .... i guess that makes me an active passivist active,hell!you're too lazy to salt your own popcorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 hence the oxymoron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachuck Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 i have to say I and anyone with ears prefer the 81's. but I like the hz models they sound great and they are cheep basicly there is cheese 81 and there is cheese wiz hz4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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