Which Pickups For A Solid Body 12-string?

[AprilEthereal777]

Hi Folks,

I am currently drawing up plans for a 12 string solid body electric guitar I am going to build. My specs so far will be 20 frets, 25.5" scale, double cutaway solid body style, set neck, Gotoh hardtail 12 string bridge. I am going to be using a Queensland Maple top and Blackwood body with the same species in a 3 piece neck laminate......and a Gidgee fret board. These timbers balance the tone very well and to me are neither overly warm or overly bright.

I need help in considering different pickup options? I was thinking perhaps just one humbucker, say a Seymour Duncan SH2 Jazz positioned evenly between the end of the FB and the bridge....then split coil the wiring for 2 options. But then again, I know NOTHING about single coil pups....every build I have done has been with twin humbuckers and every manufactured guitar I own has the same! I guess I am looking for maximum versatility between a warm sound and a bright sound.

Any thoughts on pickups or anything else regarding a 12 string solid body would be greatly appreciated!

[Geo]

I imagine a single-coil would sound better for a 12-string, since the point is the weird interaction of those harmonics, and a single-coil doesn't have any cancellation up there like humbucker does.

[Xanthus]

I'd put my vote in for a rails pickup, whatever you get. I don't know how well the extra strings would get picked up by traditional pickups.

[black_labb]

the cancellation of the higher harmonics on a humbucker cancel out the higher haronics on a certain string, and those higher harmonics would be replicated on the other octave string, so i dont see how the humbucker would be bad for that. it wouldnt act any differently as a single coil. imagine the string pair are the notes in a power chord the E (well use the open chord for this example) and the e that is an octave higher (the second fret on the A string. humbuckers dont sound bad to me playing power chords. many people who play mainly power chords alot prefer humbuckers.

im not sure about how much of an effect the 2 different strings would have on the sound, but i think a normal pickup would be fine. if you use a humbucker i'd be tempted to angle it so that one coil has its poles under the octave string and one under the root string.

[GregP]

There's a difference between fundamentals and harmonics. I don't think anyone's claiming that fundamental frequencies get cancelled. There's a dampening of high frequencies with humbuckers that are wired in series not because of the dual coils, but because of the... (insert correct word here... inductance, resistance, whatever it is)... created by all that copper wire. I'm not sure that ultra-high frequencies automatically qualify as "harmonics", either, which seems to be the common conception. Worth reading up on. <adds to list>

But I wouldn't be really worried about humbuckers. Toaster-top single coils sure make a Rick 12-string sound good, but nobody's ever complained about the Gibson 1275!

[Prostheta]

Humbuckers would add more options to your sound, and you can after all coil tap them, or semi coil tap with a tone control added between the coils to tap off high end instead of the "traditional" placement of tone controls....or even using a pull pot on the tone control to switch between traditional tone and semi coil tap :-D

[AprilEthereal777]

Thanks everyone for the replies and helpful suggestions. I will still give this some more consideration however at this stage I am leaning towards a bridge and neck humbucker with a PRS style 5 way rotary switch for split coil options, and perhaps volume and tone controls for each pickup. This combination would give a high range of options and I am sure at least one of them would sound great.......

Any other thoughts on wiring tricks, switches or the like that may authenticate that acoustic type sound? I am also now considering a chambered body for this build to help in that department.

Thanks once again

Edited April 17, 2008 by AprilEthereal666

[psw]

Hi there fellow melbournite

I am doing a Les Paul type guitar at the moment and am about to work out a wiring scheme where I use two "special tone" controls I pinched from this amazing site...DGB Studio...hundreds of wiring schemes.

The idea of the "special tone" is that with a humbucker, instead of splitting it, you get a similar effect with no noise or hum if you effectively put a tone control on one of the coils. What is left is the bass of one coil and the full treble effect of the other like a split...so a single coil with a bit more bass and body in it. I am hoping if I split the outer coils out (the two inner coils of each pickup like singles) to get a bit of the strat like hollowed out tone with both pickups in combination. They have a scheme in which at 5 is the full HB, turning down is like a normal tone control, turning up creates the split like effect. I am not sure yet how to do it with two special tone controls, but I am running the pickups directly to these controls before the selector then from there back to the volume and out. I have even planned (though I don't know if it will work) to add a piezo in the body of the guitar (you could mount it under the bridge pickup for instance) and having a push pull knob and preamp to add this to the electric sound for a percussive acoustic like edge to the sound. I am using the old buzzer piezo idea, not sure how effective it will be so I am not pushing that element.

A lot depends on the type of sound you are after. I always wanted a 9 string with the top three doubled and would be seeking a jangly sound I guess, perhaps even lipstick tube pickups or something without so much power might be the go...or that filtertron or ricky type of sound. Some may depend on the looks too I guess. Maybe mini Humbuckers, there is so much choice these days of very reasonably priced and quality pickups of these types for custom builders.

Hope that helps, drop me a line if you are interested in how my wiring turns out...I am just approaching the wiring phase as the guitar is just about to be "strung up"...

good luck, sounds like a nice project... pete

[AprilEthereal777]

Hi there fellow melbournite

I am doing a Les Paul type guitar at the moment and am about to work out a wiring scheme where I use two "special tone" controls I pinched from this amazing site...DGB Studio...hundreds of wiring schemes.

The idea of the "special tone" is that with a humbucker, instead of splitting it, you get a similar effect with no noise or hum if you effectively put a tone control on one of the coils. What is left is the bass of one coil and the full treble effect of the other like a split...so a single coil with a bit more bass and body in it. I am hoping if I split the outer coils out (the two inner coils of each pickup like singles) to get a bit of the strat like hollowed out tone with both pickups in combination. They have a scheme in which at 5 is the full HB, turning down is like a normal tone control, turning up creates the split like effect. I am not sure yet how to do it with two special tone controls, but I am running the pickups directly to these controls before the selector then from there back to the volume and out. I have even planned (though I don't know if it will work) to add a piezo in the body of the guitar (you could mount it under the bridge pickup for instance) and having a push pull knob and preamp to add this to the electric sound for a percussive acoustic like edge to the sound. I am using the old buzzer piezo idea, not sure how effective it will be so I am not pushing that element.

A lot depends on the type of sound you are after. I always wanted a 9 string with the top three doubled and would be seeking a jangly sound I guess, perhaps even lipstick tube pickups or something without so much power might be the go...or that filtertron or ricky type of sound. Some may depend on the looks too I guess. Maybe mini Humbuckers, there is so much choice these days of very reasonably priced and quality pickups of these types for custom builders.

Hope that helps, drop me a line if you are interested in how my wiring turns out...I am just approaching the wiring phase as the guitar is just about to be "strung up"...

good luck, sounds like a nice project... pete

Hey Pete,

Thanks for your post. This is exactly what I was hoping for with some creative wiring suggestions. I had a look at your website also and I am intrigued! I will now have a read through sme of your threads and see what else I can learn. I also have a custom double cut twin humbucker electric ready to fit out and also looking for some cool wiring tricks for that one......long live experimentation

Thanks again for your post.

Jon

[GregP]

Very cool idea for that split.

You're mentioning "acoutstic-like" tones, though. Surely a piezo has come to mind, no? Even if you don't like the sound of piezo quack, this can be countered to a certain extent with a decent preamp, and can also be used blended with the magnetic pickups. That'll get you far more into jangle-ville than humbuckers alone.

[psw]

I noticed that too but I wasn't sure of the implication, this is supposed to be an electric 12 string. It is certainly something to consider, GregP.

I am doing something with a cheap piezo from a buzzer with a little kit preamp, very cheap. I actually hid mine under the bridge but on the wood, I am not sure how effective this will be on my project with a les Paul as this is a very solid guitar. I have tried this kind of thing on a strat, I even wedged one in the neck pocket and got a good response, but also some handling noise. It is an effective addition to an electric guitar and will give a more percussive attack, but it won't have the quality to really stand alone IMHO.

I mentioned it, but a better compromise is to get that acoustic like strat in-between sound perhaps. Again, it depends what you want from a twelve, but it is more likely that you will want that clean sound. Still, the electric twelve is a cool sound, think the byrds, beatles and such. My desire for a 9 string is to compromise I guess and get more clarity on the lower strings and jangle on the top. I am thinking of modifying a cheap telecaster for this but have not quite worked out how to do it. The guitar I have in mind looks like it will require some modification to the bridge plus a new nut and somehow mounting 3 lefty tuners to the underside of the headstock. I had thought similarly that the clear sound of a tele would suit a 12 or nine string sound.

I am trying hard these days to simplify my approach to things and am rejecting the one guitar for all seasons approach. I do want something though with a few distinctive good sounds and a little versatility, but gone are the bank of phase switches and such from my projects.

Here is a direct link to these tone control ideas with a few variations...DGB studio tone control notes...I noticed that there are 204 dual humbucker wiring schemes!!! There is probably already a diagram in there for exactly the kind of thing I am proposing....hehehe

pete

[PeteBuchan]

If you are still going along the seymour duncan jazz neck route, may I suggest you try out the duncan '59 neck instead? I used to have a jazz in my main guitar, but swapped it out for a '59 just recently. Far nicer pickup in my opinion. Alternatively, have you thought about putting a p-90 in there? I'm making a semi-hollow tele 12 string just now which I plan on using a couple of vintage wound duncan p-90s I have. As a simple description, they sort of sound in between a humbucker and a single coil so you get the brightness and definition of the single, but with the warmth and body of the hummer.

Just some more options to think over

Pete

[Geo]

they sort of sound in between a humbucker and a single coil so you get the brightness and definition of the single, but with the warmth and body of the hummer.

Good description, and that's why P90's are my favorite pickup...

Whatever you do, I would provide some sort of single-coil-ish option, because I think this will do the 12 string jangle better. I think of a 12 string acoustic, and the way you hear those overtones rubbing on each other like a chorus/flanger/etc. effect. Not that humbuckers couldn't do this, but I think a single coil or split/tapped HB would do it better because it's brighter.