Digitech Whammy Guitar On Board

[audiochild]

Hi,

I'm getting a guitar build by someone and want to have some "stomp" effects inside of it.

I'd like to have a digitech whammy installed into the guitar so that I could control the pitch with a knob instead of a pedal with my foot.

I was told that people had issues when doing that.

do you know of such a thing in a guitar?

I assume that it is not a problem to turn the pedal into a knob and to install the electronics.

but I was wondering if it possible to use it with a battery inside? the whammy I have seems to only work with an ac adaptor as it has some unusual power "desires" that I'm not sure exist batteries for.

do you have any experiences with this kind of thing?

any suggestions much appreciated!

thanks

[GregP]

it could be done, but I expect that the pedal is the optimal way to control a whammy. Besides that, if the whammy craps out or you decide you're not really using it... whammy still in your guitar.

Lots of threads seem to pop up about embedding effects directly into guitars, but I'm not really for it. Seems like a waste of time and energy to me, plus too great of a commitment to a particular effect.

But that's STRICTLY personal opinion.

[Xanthus]

Maybe you could build it into your project, and use the pedal like a B-Bender :D

I'm with Greg on this one, though. Unless it's a knob or a switch, I'd rather it not in my guitar. I just can't think of a practical way that you could get the whole range of whammy motion controllable through the front of the guitar. Most likely, it's controlled with some sort of pot like a wah pedal, and getting a fast motion out of a pot isn't easy without some leverage, like a pedal. It's always been a much faster action with my foot, and more controllable.

And when you're fiddling with a knob, you're not playing your guitar. It's one or the other. When you have a pedal to activate with your foot, you can do both.

As far as power goes, the Whammy comes with a wall wart, so I imagine it ripping through 9v batteries like there's no tomorrow.

A few members here have taken a tip from Matt Bellamy/Manson guitars and are putting fuzz, phaser, and the like into their guitars, but those are simpler to do, and mostly are installed in a "set it and forget it" configuration. If you're REALLY looking to put some extra electronics into your guitars, I feel that's the way to go. The Whammy is just too big and requires such a fine touch to control it that it belongs on the floor.

In my opinion, of course

[curtisa]

If the Whammy's control pedal is built anything similar to my old Digitech RP6 control pedal (which I suspect it is), it doesn't use a pot, it uses an LED and photo-transistor combination - you're not going to be able to adapt a pot to this circuit for internal guitar use without some serious circuit surgery. As a bare minimum you're going to need a schematic for the Whammy to find out what's what, something I'm not sure you're going to easily track down. Probably more trouble than it's worth, and more than likely extra routing required to fit what must be a fairly substantial PCB.

[thirdstone]

Manson guitars built the black manson for matt belamy which has a midi pad on it . This contols the wammy pedal via a special lead. so to do it you need the latest digitec wammy pedal as its midi controlable.

[Xanthus]

Manson guitars built the black manson for matt belamy which has a midi pad on it . This contols the wammy pedal via a special lead. so to do it you need the latest digitec wammy pedal as its midi controlable.

Ah! I completely forgot about that! It's a ribbon strip like you would find on a keyboard, I believe. I wonder if it's wireless.... Because that guy already has so much going on, I'd hate to be tethered to the ground by two cords.

[audiochild]

thanks for all your suggestions!

further investigation revealed that it seems to be necessary to re-program one of the chips with CC++ or similar in order to make it possible.

I've got the Whammy 4 and it is midi controllable but I wouldn't actually need midi control if I have everything on board, would I?

I'd just like to play solos with the pitch shifting effect by turning a knob on the guitar. I imagine it being a lot more precise than using a pedal.

the midi strip found on manson guitars as the black and the bomber one is just able to control the unit, which is outside the guitar.

also, it only switches between the effect "presets" and is not able to affect the actual pitch like you do with the pedal.

hmmmm, maybe I really gotta put something other inside.

btw I'm not building it myself, I'm a noob at that, I get it made by a guy oversea in the US.

still I can't understand why its not simply possible to take all the inside of the Whammy that is necessary, put it into the guitar, wire here wire there knob and finished?

[Paul Marossy]

I'd rather add built-in wireless to my guitar, as in this project: http://www.exit45.com/VaxV

[thirdstone]

thanks for all your suggestions!

further investigation revealed that it seems to be necessary to re-program one of the chips with CC++ or similar in order to make it possible.

I've got the Whammy 4 and it is midi controllable but I wouldn't actually need midi control if I have everything on board, would I?

I'd just like to play solos with the pitch shifting effect by turning a knob on the guitar. I imagine it being a lot more precise than using a pedal.

the midi strip found on manson guitars as the black and the bomber one is just able to control the unit, which is outside the guitar.

also, it only switches between the effect "presets" and is not able to affect the actual pitch like you do with the pedal.

hmmmm, maybe I really gotta put something other inside.

btw I'm not building it myself, I'm a noob at that, I get it made by a guy oversea in the US.

still I can't understand why its not simply possible to take all the inside of the Whammy that is necessary, put it into the guitar, wire here wire there knob and finished?

One word " POWER "

[GregP]

Also, a knob won't work-- as already discussed.

I can't imagine a knob being more precise, though. Obviously I've never tried whammy on a knob, but even just volume swells are much more precise and controlled with a volume pedal rather than the ol' pinky around the volume knob.

As mentioned, I also can't imagine sacrificing my picking hand mobility to reach awkwardly for a knob (even if it's in pinky reach) when I could just be using my foot. I love foot control.

[Xanthus]

I'd rather add built-in wireless to my guitar, as in this project: http://www.exit45.com/VaxV

Man, the only word I can think to describe that is "intimidating!"

A definite bookmark, thanks for the link!

[Geo]

Also, with a normal wah pedal, you have about a 4" control range with your foot, controlling 270 deg of pot rotation (through a rack and pinion setup, on the ones I've seen). So while it's easy to rock from one end to the other with your foot, to control the pot by hand, you'd have to flip it all the way, like flipping a volume control from zero to full.

Just not worth it in my opinion. There's a reason the wah pedal is built the way it is.

[audiochild]

well, I'd have my hand completely free for the knob when using the whammy effect as I'd use it with a fernandes sustainer.

also, I wouldn't do complete octave "slides" with it as I'd like to bend smaller intervals with it slowly. also, I'd like to do small detunings as quartertones with it being part of an ascending melody (for example). I think it is harder to that with the foo especially in live action... I like to make a lot of movements and need my feet not to fall all over...

hm, so is it impossible to power the whammy with a battery?

Paul, that guitar looks absolutely sweet!

I'm a knoob about tech stuff, could you be more precise what you control with the wireless midi? I'm using a POD X3 Live sometimes so I've heard of Variax guuitars but I'm not completely aware how you use it.

would it be possible to control the whammy "pedal" wireless with a knob?

[curtisa]

hm, so is it impossible to power the whammy with a battery?

Not unless you have the space for a lot of them. Just had a quick look at the Whammy manual on the Digitech website, and it says that it requires at least 9.7V @ 820mA to operate. Ignoring the fact that the required input voltage is higher than a normal 9V battery, you'd probably need 3 or 4 in parallel to last more than an hour or so of continuous use.

[Geo]

I'd just like to play solos with the pitch shifting effect by turning a knob on the guitar. I imagine it being a lot more precise than using a pedal.

Doh, I just realized you're not talking about a WAH pedal. Ignore my comments...

Might an actual whammy bar be simpler than wiring in a digital whammy circuit?

[Paul Marossy]

I'd rather add built-in wireless to my guitar, as in this project: http://www.exit45.com/VaxV

Man, the only word I can think to describe that is "intimidating!"

A definite bookmark, thanks for the link!

Yeah, that's cool, isn't it? I love the onboard wireless idea.

[GregP]

I'd just like to play solos with the pitch shifting effect by turning a knob on the guitar. I imagine it being a lot more precise than using a pedal.

Doh, I just realized you're not talking about a WAH pedal. Ignore my comments...

Might an actual whammy bar be simpler than wiring in a digital whammy circuit?

Good luck getting a whammy bar to dive an entire octave or two. Not to mention 'stepping' through the intervals, and all the other Whammy effects.

[Geo]

Good luck getting a whammy bar to dive an entire octave or two. Not to mention 'stepping' through the intervals, and all the other Whammy effects.

Gaaah, details!

Seriously, I think the power supply requirements will keep the whammy pedal out of the guitar. Unless you could put an XLR jack in your guitar and use an XLR cable? Then you could supply the power from an outboard source, like phantom power going into a condenser. You'd probably want to wire in a normal jack too so you can use the guitar with normal setups. (You'd have to build some custom thingie to supply the power to one conductor of the XLR cable).

[audiochild]

I think I'll give up concerning the on board whammy pedal.

an extra cord would be annoying.

Paul, or do you think its possible to control the whammy wireless?

[Geo]

an extra cord would be annoying.

I don't think that's necessary. I would use one cable, either a stereo 1/4" or XLR. You would have to build some kind of power supply that you plug your guitar into. The power supply would do nothing but pass the guitar signal to a regular 1/4" and supply your DC to the other conductor to power your digital thing.

[Paul Marossy]

Good luck getting a whammy bar to dive an entire octave or two. Not to mention 'stepping' through the intervals, and all the other Whammy effects.

Gaaah, details!

Seriously, I think the power supply requirements will keep the whammy pedal out of the guitar. Unless you could put an XLR jack in your guitar and use an XLR cable? Then you could supply the power from an outboard source, like phantom power going into a condenser. You'd probably want to wire in a normal jack too so you can use the guitar with normal setups. (You'd have to build some custom thingie to supply the power to one conductor of the XLR cable).

As suggested, you could use phantom power via an XLR cord to power the circuit (or even a 1/4" stereo cord). I don't think a wireless would help any, though. Moreover, it doesn't sound like the sort of effect you can put into your guitar and have it work as intended...

Edited May 19, 2008 by Paul Marossy

[psw]

So...onboard effect question.

On board effects always are controversial in my mind...to me. I like the idea but in general, it limits the effect and play (you need to use your hands to adjust rather than play, while with a foot you can do both) prevents the reordering of the effect (the onboard effect always comes first in the signal chain) and the potential to use the effect with a different instrument.

I've often liked the idea of a delay in the guitar, but have resisted because, not only do they tend to draw a fair bit of power, they also are generally best at the end of the signal chain, perhaps even in the amplifier loop.

On the issue of power, these digital things would eat batteries, if nothing else very expensive and inconsistent (if not unreliable). Remote power through a stereo lead or XLR will work with low powered preamps and such with a constant power, but expect noise and pops if the thing is turned off and on or there are any surges that will run the entire length of this cable.

As a compromise idea...and don't ask me to work out how you would do this...it would be cool to have a guitar with a control system that could be used to patch into outboard effect controls of all sorts. for instance a control knob on the guitar that sent a control voltage to a floor pedal that could perhaps in one mode (perhaps selected by another guitar switch or more appropriately a foot switch) the speed of a delay (accessing all those weird wale noises and runaway feedback/pitchbend effects) and in another, a distortion level control or something.

So, a low powered CV circuit in the guitar to activate the controls of modified or DIY effects outside of the guitar, and still usable on their own or in any order, with a long lasting battery circuit and economy of space in the instrument. You could even get fancy, a guitar was recently featured here with a LDR triggered theramin in it, waving your hand above the sensor being equivalent to turning a pot! As it happened, the theramin was built into the guitar, but it could have been left outside with inventive use of the cabling...perhaps a USB cable could provide a multitude of functions and even power for the circuit.

As I say, an idea...not one that I have done or could tell you exactly how, but I know it would be possible with the will and perseverance. I recently went to a demo of the new roland high end guitar synth and this has a light beam that could be operated by the hand over it...or even the headstock of the guitar. This included a huge range of whammy effects, as well as the ability to play multiple tunings and such...it seemed to work very effectively, but very expensive of course...with no need to remove your hands from the task of playing the thing!

pete