replaceablehead Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 i gotta say its the last thing i would hav considered before i started building guitars and lookin for wood here in aus but now that my dreams of tradional hardwoods have been pretty well crushed im feelin experimental. all i know about radiata pine is its light cheap as chips and is in plentaful supply. the last build i did was a gibson melody make type guitar so i used mountain ash wich while it was a litle splintery wasnt to bad to work over all and produced a damn good sound but now im thinkin tele and while the ash was pretty light by australian standards it was still pretty heavy for a guitar. so know im thinking wats light and cheap and available and i think radiata pine. so has anyone used it? and wat do you think it'd sound like? and does anyone think itd be any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Welcome to PG...if you search around you will find lots of pine threads and a 2x4 build thing that was pretty cool... I'm in melbourne and I hear what you say, but there are lots of reasons why radiata pine in particular is a bad idea...very bad. If you have worked with it at all you will know that it is not stable...cupping and warping and even cracking over time with humidity and age. The reason is the wide grain and considreable soft sections...also, it tends to be pretty knotty. Hardwood is a minimum...and if weight is a problem with something like ash on a tele especially...hollowing it out would solve the problem. It is possible to get hardwood and there are a range of Australian woods that work...but instrument making quality woods is expensive...you are not going to find it in bunnings...and pine is not an alternative. A lot of work goes into making a guitar, a lot of expense in hardware. Skimping on the body wood is not cost effective. You definitely don't want to even think about building a neck from it... While it is true that Leo did make some of the very early tele's from pine, there is a reason he didn't keep it up...also, there are different types of pine and radiata will be one of the worst... Anyway...that's my opinion, from one aussie to another...others can chip in, but I would do a good search to check things out and have a look at where other people have got good wood supplies. I know that different states have better sources than others...not sure where you are, but there are a few aussie makers active on the boards... good luck... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 G'day Replaceablehead. PSW has it on the money. If you're choosing to go to Bunnings to buy your timber, and especially mgp10 stud grade pine, you're going to get what you deserve. You buy cheap, you get cheap results. You'll get more stability from MDF. I posted a reply to your thread about sources for timbers in oz about a week ago, but one of the mods accidentally wiped it. You also mentioned about the figured timber prices on Luthier sites in Oz being very expensive and what's the point if you "just paint over the top". I feel you are misguided. Figured timbers usually get clear coated to show the timbers beauty off, not to hide them under solids . Try Mathews timber in N.S.W. that's a start for you. And ask lots of questions while you're there. Failing that, if you're hung up on getting stuff from Bunnings (Don't agree there) then at least hunt out some quartersawn stock of straight Tassie oak boards. Definitely not ideal but certainly more stable. cheers, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 I am late on this...so maybe in another thread you have already heard this..but Perry sold guitar woods last I heard? Wood is expensive,but as mentioned before,hardware is much more expensive...It makes more sense to use the best woods you can afford and skimp in hardware...since later you can upgrade that a piece at a time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 While it is true that Leo did make some of the very early tele's from pine, there is a reason he didn't keep it up actually squier are making tele's with pine again... and getting very good reviews http://www.squierguitars.com/products/sear...rtno=0303025507 i dont know the pine you are talking about but PSW obviously doesnt rate it and i would trust that what i will add is that it is not as simple as just finding a bit of wood the right size. There will be good bits of pine and bad bits and its going to be harder to find a piece of pine suitable for a guitar than it would be to find a piece of hardwood thats suitable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 Well, radiata pine is different to the stuff that Leo or even squier would use...definitely not what you want. If you don't mind laminating up a blank, there are woods you could use, generally hardwoods that are typically available...I've seen some nice straight grained spruce that once left to dry for a couple more years rang like a bell...but even then, the kiln drying is not enough and you need something with no knots an little sap wood...and you still couldn't build a neck from it! Yes, Perry sells select stuff... Avoid the temptation of using MDF. You could do an orgmorg and recycle and there are a lot of recycle yards around these days like shiver-me-timbers here in melbourne that have old growth timber that have been built into 200 year old building to settle and dry...it's a thought. If you want to go cheap...then victorian ash or tassie oak is fairly common and usable and if you feel it might be too heavy...hollow it out like I suggested... There is a list in one of the tutorial sections that has links to a range of aussie wood suppliers...somewhere...but I am too lazy to get the link out for you...that would require searching... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replaceablehead Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 i had a feeling it warped, but still i canot accept the need the need to use expensive wood when guitars in other parts of the world can be made from basswood and poplar im not looking for the best sound im just lookin for somthin that sounds reasonable and is light i need somthin balanced. my goal is a more usable guitar for live work, so im looking for wood that is light thats number one, number two relatively cheap and 3rdly if it sounds good too then thats just a bonus. so radiatas out fair enough i had a feelin it wouldnt be any good. anyone got any other ideas? also wats the lightest australian hardwood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 i think what they are trying to say is this you don't need an expensive piece of wood for a guitar but you do need a very stable piece. than means properly dried so that it won't warp or split you alson dont want knotts in your guitar now here is the proble you take a fairly cheap peice off wood like bass wood and then find a piece large enough to build a guitar out of with no flaws then dry it and all that good stuff now its not so cheap and thats with any wood. you don't want to go too cheap on this part because the body of the guitar is the foundation every thing attaches to it and if its not right that means the rest of your guitar wont' be right and here is my thing if you want a low end guitar then save some money and just buy one you can pick up a squire or epiphone a lot cheaper than you can build a guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replaceablehead Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 i guess the best thing to do is look at and feel the wood. still i am sorta finding it difficult to locate anything light so if you got any suggestions on somthing light and stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 You wont find basswood either...they use it because it is an even grain incredibly easy to machine and is easy on the finishing I suspect. There are options, and hollowing it out...you can buy bodies...or do like I do and get a decent squire and do it up. Eden also make some cool looking tele bodies that are hollowed out with an F-hole...but watch the freight, maybe consider some hardware while you are at it...or even a neck if you don't have one. However, doing up a squire or similar means you can check out the neck and body and be sure that it's a good one, replace the hardware and pickups or whatever...even paint it...like the blueteleful guitar...see link below (yes, that's right, I'm still pushing that project even if it didn't win GOTM...hehehe) pete ps...what state are you in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 He's in mid N.S.W. Pete. If you're not able/willing to go to some of the suggested places listed in this thread (and your other one which mirrors this one also) to source decent tonewoods then you're circling back unto yourself with Bunnings F17 grade Mountain Ash/Tassie Oak and chambering for weight reduction. Fine for lintels, beams, deep joists for house framing but definitely not furniture or instrument grade. Do you own a router ? cheers, Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replaceablehead Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 yeah the other topic i started got a slow start cuz i posted it in the wrong place. the last wood i used that i got from a local place (ive just been using bunnings as generic example) probly would be of f14 grade stuff so long as it has no knots ect than tas oak should make perfectly good furniture and guitars. well maybe not just any tas oak but the stuff i used on my gibson was quite good and the overall made a damn good guitar that weighed just under 9lbs so its actualy not to bad of a weight. but now im buildin a tele and want somthin lighter. i hav already pretty much decided to put cavities in. but im wondering if i were to buy some aus wood from anywhere at all wats the lightest? oh and yes i do hav a router 3hp hitachi got plenty of power but in hind sight may have been a little heavy:) i actualy like the mountain ash its just a little too heavy for a tele. in fact id go so far as to say its my favorite australian tonewood its not as hard to work or as weak a people make out and its quite similair to honduras mahogany maybe even a little like maple too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replaceablehead Posted November 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 well ive googled just about every wood that grows here and cant find anything much lighter than qld maple so thanx guys but if you can think of any light workable woods at all or anythin else ill be glad too here it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz tradie Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 yeah the other topic i started got a slow start cuz i posted it in the wrong place. the last wood i used that i got from a local place (ive just been using bunnings as generic example) probly would be of f14 grade stuff so long as it has no knots ect than tas oak should make perfectly good furniture and guitars. well maybe not just any tas oak but the stuff i used on my gibson was quite good and the overall made a damn good guitar that weighed just under 9lbs so its actualy not to bad of a weight. but now im buildin a tele and want somthin lighter. i hav already pretty much decided to put cavities in. but im wondering if i were to buy some aus wood from anywhere at all wats the lightest? oh and yes i do hav a router 3hp hitachi got plenty of power but in hind sight may have been a little heavy:) i actualy like the mountain ash its just a little too heavy for a tele. in fact id go so far as to say its my favorite australian tonewood its not as hard to work or as weak a people make out and its quite similair to honduras mahogany maybe even a little like maple too. F14 ??? does not exist. Pinus Radiata comes in merch grade, F-7 or new strength coding is MGP-10 and MGP-12 Hardwoods (Tassie oak) F-17 supa 17 or F-27 You've got a router, chamber it . Failing that, go to a reputable timber merchant and look for any of the following. Blackwood Qld maple Huon pine (lighter than typical Qld maple) Bunya pine (lighter than typical Qld maple) Tassie myrtle (lighter than typical Qld maple) Qld walnut and U.S. walnut Alder (lighter than typical Qld maple) Ash (lighter than typical Qld maple) Makore Silky oak Tassie oak Fijian mahogany plantation grade African mahogany (Khaya) U.S. oak This list is what is at my local Mathews timber merchant in melbourne that will do for bodies easily and you'll have similar up in N.S.W. Now you've got all the info, get to it. BTW. google some more because all the info is out there, you just gotta apply yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 Maple neck and Whitewood body... Excuse me..whitewood is african,not australian... Alder?You have that?Really you need to just look around your specific area...Nobody can tell you what you will find... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted November 2, 2008 Report Share Posted November 2, 2008 OK... There are a lot of fine Australian Timbers...but it is a specialized area and not easily available. I was down in Tassie a few yearss back and they have some remarkable timbers and in the far west I went to a gift shop and they were selling smallish offcuts of the stuff. But generally, native aussie timbers tend to be tough, hard and heavy. Besides, you don't seem to care too much about that... I understand your frustration, but if you check on the threads, even in the states where the 'standard' materials were decided (no, we don't have alder for instance) you generally need to go to a specialized supplier and pay premium rates for premium timbers. You would find exactly the same thing here if you were into fine furniture making and stuff...that's just the way it is. Expecting your local bunnings or lumber yard to carry 'tonewoods' is like expecting the local hardware store to carry pickups and machine heads...they just don't! There have also been a range of threads that you could search out and some further information presented here... But since none of that satisfies either...and you don't seem to care at all what it looks or sounds like ... Plywood...you want structural grade no void plywood. You will find this at bunnings, it will still cost you, be heavy as hell, be tonally suspect (with the opposing grains) and most likely pine veneers...but it will be stable and strong! If you used multiple layers you could even pepper the inner layers with holes and make it light. However, you may find that it adds up in cost and the super cheap knotty stuff that they use to stabilize walls and full of voids is to be avoided. On the other hand, if you want to go pine...which is an unstable softwood...I would laminate it from selected straight grained 1x2 strips dressed strips that you see everywhere and alternate the grain direction...look for clear pieces with no knots and even texture and as old and dry as you can find. It is still a softwood, it will still probably move about a bit, but it will likely be fairly stable structurally even if over time you end up having to refinish it from time to time. Really though, the whole thing is a false economy...you can easily end up paying more in paint and time preparing than you could save on the materials...and for a guitar like a tele, why bother? There are plenty of cheap copies about and second hand guitars for the taking that are already the right shape. You mentioned that you wanted a "gigging guitar"...but that implies at least something that sounds good and is up to the task... For the amount of effort that is required to make a guitar, and the ease of working with good materials, your question makes no sense really. It has been answered before over the years pretty much...and you have been pointed in that direction...maybe you won't be satisfied till you make a radiata pine guitar and find our for yourself...in which case you should just do it... and good luck... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replaceablehead Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 F14 does exist but im an idiot cuz the rating goes up not down and you'd be hard pressed finding tas oak with that low of a stress rating i think. i never did get stress ratings wat i meant without trying to sound smart was the last lot of mountain ash i got from a local timber yard was pretty good thanx for the list though that givs me a better idea of wat im lookin for cuz i wasnt quite sure wat was light now ive got a better idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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