SJE-Guitars Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) After much mulling over of what I would take on as my next project I came to the conclusion that an 8 string would be next. However me being me - I couldn't just accept 'standard' parts or rules . . . sooooooo the summary of it is: 30.5" scale (complete with a custom truss rod) Custom made Stainless Steel hardware including 8 string Tune-o-matic bridge with string through body - the only off the self parts all being well will be the output jack, controls and tuner pegs. Custom made pickups (by SD Custom shop) So far I've never picked up a 7 string and upwards guitar which in my opinion have have been comfortable to play - usual because of not only huge wide fretboards but thick unweildy necks. So the intention for this guitar is for it to have not only as narrow a fretboard possible but also a thin profiled neck to make it as comfortable as 8 string can be! I'll be updating here as well as keep a blog on my website which is easy enough to find (just remove the dash from my name and add .com!) The timber I am using for this guitar is rather special as Neck will be Siam Rosewood and the body will be a solid 2 piece bookmatch Laos Blackwood/rosewood - I put a slash because I only know the timber by it's local name which is mai mun it's grain is very similar to Siam Rosewood however the heartwood is dark blue/grey/black. Once I get it (Monday all being well!) I'll have more of a chance to get put a name to it! Anyway I got the Siam Rosewood the other day and after a few runs over the jointer it now looks like this: Top Close up Side Grain Back The white sap wood will be removed with the headstock angle cut - although I do rather like the contrast. My first dilemma is what timber to use for the fretboard - I could make make the entire neck and fretboard from the piece of Siam Rosewood and have a fully matching neck. However I could add even more exotic timber and add a black and white ebony fretboard - which I reckon would be a nice contrast to the already dark timbers in the neck and body. What do you reckon? All Rosewood or rosewood neck with Black & White Ebony? This build might take some time in getting parts made - however the wood side of things should be pretty quick. Looking forward to finally getting the timber for the body to beable get started! Edited October 18, 2009 by SJE-Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shredforbread33 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Seems cool. Black and white ebony for sure. The headstock is a little.. bland. Whatever suites your style though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necroscience13 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) Very cool idea but I'd also change the headstock. Edited February 21, 2009 by necroscience13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 You know what - I think you might be right on the headstock - I personally like it in the 3+3 version but looking at the template again the extra gerth makes it look a touch odd . . . I think curving the sides in slightly will make it slighty more attractive. Photoshop time . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 How are you going to make the neck less wide? There are small variations in string-to-string spacing at the nut and bridge that can be accomplished, but really - you still have 8 strings! If you make them closer together at the nut, you run the risk that it will be unplayable for anyone but the most dainty fingers (and those folks tend to have small hands anyway, so.....). Thickness, yes - there are things you can do with CF laminates etc to bring the thickness down. But width - there's only so much you can get rid of before you compromise playability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) How are you going to make the neck less wide? There are small variations in string-to-string spacing at the nut and bridge that can be accomplished, but really - you still have 8 strings! If you make them closer together at the nut, you run the risk that it will be unplayable for anyone but the most dainty fingers (and those folks tend to have small hands anyway, so.....). Thickness, yes - there are things you can do with CF laminates etc to bring the thickness down. But width - there's only so much you can get rid of before you compromise playability. The wide of the neck will narrow because firstly the nut size - which is smaller than the Ibanez model - and secondly the string spacing on the bridge. Much planning and simulating of string positions on the fretboard using CAD has been done - the neck will be just over 1cm narrower at the 24th fret compared to the Ibanez 8 string and only 1.5mm larger than an Ibanez 7 string. But I am 100% certain the playability won't be affected so basically it'll be an 8 string with essentially the same size fretboard as a 7 string . .. . In terms of neck strength not only does Siam Rosewood have a high density and hardness rating but combined with the extra rigidity of a B&W Ebony fretboard the neck will have no problem in being taken to a slim profile. I was tempted to use an ironwood for the neck because of extra rigidity but the types of woods over here there is no end of timber with high tensile strength - with the added truss rod the necks are absolutely soild. The scale length will also help by keeping the string tension higher than the usual 27" scale so ensuring the lateral movement of the low 8th string is kept to a minimal also allowing a narrower fretboard to be used - but as a side effect improve the sustain. I am looking forward to getting it underway - particularly the neck - for obvious reasons! It's obviously experimental but as would be said why make something you can go and buy off the shelf in a shop? Edited February 23, 2009 by SJE-Guitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 My Biohazard 8-string was made over a 30" scale, much like your own. By any chance did you choose 30.5" on the basis that Meshuggah's recent Ibanez customs use that scale length? My neck is 55.75 mm at the zero fret and 73.5 mm at the 24th. Strings are spread over 48mm or so, slightly biased to make the higher strings closer together. As Erik detailed - you'll find that the relative dimensions of a long scale and narrow string spacing will be difficult to play for anyone other than those with alien-long fingers, and they're all pianists anyway :-\ I don't find that the 8-string neck is any more difficult to play than a 5-string bass in terms of scale or neck dimensions. The Ibanez specs are pretty good for the majority of players who want to pick up an 8. Any ideas on the size of fingerboard radius you'll add in there - I presume the custom TOM will be different to a 12" radius? Looking good - that's a nice piece of rosewood you have there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 My Biohazard 8-string was made over a 30" scale, much like your own. By any chance did you choose 30.5" on the basis that Meshuggah's recent Ibanez customs use that scale length? My neck is 55.75 mm at the zero fret and 73.5 mm at the 24th. Strings are spread over 48mm or so, slightly biased to make the higher strings closer together. As Erik detailed - you'll find that the relative dimensions of a long scale and narrow string spacing will be difficult to play for anyone other than those with alien-long fingers, and they're all pianists anyway :-\ I don't find that the 8-string neck is any more difficult to play than a 5-string bass in terms of scale or neck dimensions. The Ibanez specs are pretty good for the majority of players who want to pick up an 8. Any ideas on the size of fingerboard radius you'll add in there - I presume the custom TOM will be different to a 12" radius? Looking good - that's a nice piece of rosewood you have there! Well 30.5" is a short scale bass so it's a nice standard size as Baritones seem to vary on who you ask what is a standard some will say 27" others 28" or whatever. I didn't actually know Meshuggah had got 30.5" customs the last thing I read was them moaning about get 27" scale and not having 30.5"! I have detuned my 27" baritone down to F# and even with just a .054 string it was ok in terms of playability and 'flappiness' - similar to tuning to C or B on a 25.5" scale - I can imagine with a heavier gauge it would be easily tune to F#BEADG - but this is a pretty pointless tuning with out the higher B and E strings (although I do like a drop A tuning when used in standard B tuning). 12" radius is currently the plan - although I am going to make a scratch fretboard to check how it suits the wider neck. The TOM design is currently based on 12" but I'll probably get a 15" radius one made at the same time. Since this is part of my plan essentially building two of the same guitar similtaneously as I have a nice blank of Pyinkado (same timber as the previous SJE1 pic - actually the other half of the same piece of timber that was made from) and some Afzelia Xylocarpa for the neck. At the 24th fret it will measure 69.5mm - like I say going from the CAD layouts and comparisons to existing string spacings on my six strings - I fully hear the concerns over string spacing and small fingers etc but after a nearly 2 full days of testing, checking and CAD mock ups I am positive the spacing will work and be playable to all but the stumpiest fingers! Now I've just got to finally get this bloody timber for the body which as another day goes by I am start to think will never turn up! But I am determined to get it as it's a really attractive timber hopefully my chunk will have some sapwood on it as the sapwood is a nice light tan colour and looks really striking against the dark heartwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 OK, so that's about 10mm spacing at the bridge, not too radical a change from standard ~10.4mm. Sounds like it should work fine. But a 12" radius on the fingerboard will require you to have a fairly thick board if you don't want the edges to feather down to nothing - and now if you want a slim neck at the same time, you may have to recess the back of the fingerboard to accommodate the truss rod. I'm doing this with a current build, and it seems to work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yeah, 12" is hella round for a wide board. In addition to the advisable option of recessing the rod as Erik detailed, you could pop a single-action rod in from the back and fillet it Fender style which would give you that all-Rosewood neck you mentioned, and there would be no fine edge to the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 OK, so that's about 10mm spacing at the bridge, not too radical a change from standard ~10.4mm. Sounds like it should work fine. But a 12" radius on the fingerboard will require you to have a fairly thick board if you don't want the edges to feather down to nothing - and now if you want a slim neck at the same time, you may have to recess the back of the fingerboard to accommodate the truss rod. I'm doing this with a current build, and it seems to work fine. Yep - nothing radical but combined with the longer scale a slightly narrower nut and string spacing and hey presto an 8 string neck suddenly becomes pretty much the same size as a 7 string. On the fretboard side - yep this has always been in my thoughts hence as I say I'll be making a couple of testers on some scrap timber. I just really like the feel of 12" radiused fretboards - basically with a 12' radius there would be just over 4mm difference from the centre to the edge. A blank of 9mm opposed to the normal 7mm would be required to have an edge thickness of 5mm - so this is what I will be testing since I cut all my fretboard blanks myself thickness ain't a problem. This is all the fun of making guitars! Time to contact the wood shop see if my body timber has arrived and go down to the tool shop to discuss the radiusing bits (see other thread in Tools section!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well today was a day of visiting machine shops! Bad news is the ToM isn't going to happen - no can do was the replies - to small and fine work for their machines really it needs casting which ain't gonna happen here. Good news is the straight forward bits like ferrules, strap buttons, knobs and the truss rod are all on order - yeah! All stainless steel . . . well except for the truss rod! So now I am going to sit and rack my brains over a new bridge design (thinking individual saddles on a radiused plate - still string through) one which can be produced in the local shop - I know I can buy something from the US but that would take away the fun and also remove part of the uniqueness of the guitar. Still don't have the body timber - due to the man with the tree going awol! I am told 100% Saturday even if my man at the shop has to drive and get the timber himself to be fair he did offer me a piece of Siam Rosewood in place but I don't really want the neck and body all the same timber. I am also going to review my original headstock designs as it's patently obviously that many folks don't like the straight lines of the 3+3 . . . before deciding on that one I had about 4 or 5 more decorative versions. Also the body shape is being refined some what - mainly the top horn once I've put these bits together I'll post them up for people opinions. Anyone interested in Stainless steel parts?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I've been going over things as well as blunting my fingers in CAD also not having a fully working internet connection can do wonders for productivity! I thought it was about to that I did my take on the single cut body and this is what I've come up with - complete with new 3+3/4+4 headstock The headstock was one that I draw up when I first came up with my headstocks but decided against - however looking back and putting them into scale on CAD made it look a lot nicer than my freehand sketch. Originally the curved edges were intended to be slight more of a sharper radius but checking in CAD the top strings would of snagged on the centre pegs. Also it not that visible on those smaller drawings but the headstock is asymmetric, the right hand point is higher than the left so the curve is sharper. Otherwise nothing more to report in terms of actual DOING side - HOWEVER the good news is the ToM is back on - I have found a precision milling shop over the border in Thailand who can do the design. Thus far the design is now done, the SS parts are in production and the SS 8 String ToM will be on order early next week. I need to go down to the timber merchants and get some more B&W Ebony for the fretboard. But also a spawn of this design is the 6 string version - which might just have a B&W Ebony top on a Afzelia body. Gonna be busy busy shortly! I am gonna make a few adjustments to my 2 cut design also and CAD it while I am waiting on the parts - well I've do them already in AliasStudio but it need importing to CAD an scaling as I just trace it on off and image - so more soon. Thoughts on the designs - although not decide on the carving 100% yet .. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Wood Porn time! The Black & White Ebony Fretboard blank . . . And some real rare stuff . . Figured Afzelia Xylocarpa - this is one of the rarest figured timbers you can get - A close up on that figure - the line is where it's be cut on a table saw not a joint - it's just rough saw - So now I have the decision either make a solid figured Afzelia body or just use it as a top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD83 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That b&w ebony looks incredibly great! I also like the new headstock design, doesn't look as bulky as the old one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That b&w ebony looks incredibly great! I also like the new headstock design, doesn't look as bulky as the old one. Cheers! I personally just love B&W Ebony you see new things in the grain all the time . . . I've just noticed a shape that looks very much like an alien in the centre of large black bit in the middle (might be it's just me!)! On the headstock I realised the other day actually that the holes are higher than they should be - so on the actual headstock they'll be lower and the so headstock will be slightly narrower (around 5 maybe 10mm have yet to redo the design) so even less bulky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Makamong? Niiiice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Makamong? Niiiice. Maybe in Thailand . . . Mai Tha Kha Laai here Although Figured Afzelia not the Burl. The same merchant specialises in Afzelia and Amboyna Burls and I can tell you that his stock is something to behold! One piece of timber he had in stock had the most incredible figuring I have ever seen on a piece of wood - it took him 2 years to locate the tree - I cannot remember the name it though! Some of the prices for these timbers sold by the Kg is eye watering - over $100 per Kg! Anyway I've decided I am going to go to town on the body with a laminated racing strips probably made up of Burmese Rosewood, Khampii Rosewood (a beautiful purple coloured rosewood) and Padouk - I'll see what I've got in the workshop tomorrow to see what I can rustle up! This guitar is gonna be a conservationist nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Update time . . Usual story the lump of Afzelia was sliced into 2 stuck, stuck together, body shape rough sawn on bandsaw then the template routed around and it ends up looking like this . . The observational of you might notice the previously threaten strips haven't appeared . . I played with various varieties but decided this timber just didn't need anything adding. Neck Truss rod slot cut a full 22" in length now waiting for the rod to be finished this week. The excess of the back of the neck was sliced to reveal so pretty amazing grain! (note neck heel leveled): The headstock roughed out - the small splash of sapwood I think makes a nice hightlight: The whole thing ready for drilling, routing and shaping etc etc More soon . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I think I've used the term 'bloody machine shops' quite frequently just lately around here! However what progress has been made is Bareknuckle pickups on order which were ordered prior to my eureka moment on my 6 string build of making my own bobbins for self winding - I could of made some matching Siam Rosewood bobbins! However most importantly the news has filtered over the border from the precision machine shop in Thailand that the 8 string T-o-M is in production as I type! :D The inept arses at the machine shop who were supposed to be making the truss rod have been canned - totally clueless and useless! So I'll be getting a Stumac 24" hotrod, getting it cut and rethreaded for this build - the custom truss rods are on the future to do list! Otherwise nothing has altered from the last picture - until I have all the bits in hand I ain't making any cuts since the string spacing and neck width are dependant on these bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) You should just buy a rod from LMI instead as they do custom lengths, and don't require a Mariana Trench like the HotRods :-\ Edited March 31, 2009 by Prostheta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 You should just buy a rod from LMI instead as they do custom lengths, and don't require a Mariana Trench like the HotRods :-\ Hmmm true however I've already routed the slot for a hotrod size truss rod . .. I assumed that the machine shop could easily manage to tap a 5mm steel rod at both ends - not an over the top assumption! Alas I was wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Anyone interested in Stainless steel parts?!?! Yeah, i might. What I'm interested in is some kind of individual string/bridge option for doing multi-scale. I'm planning a multi-scale 8-string right now, and some form of bridge would be nice to have. :-) There aren't many options and they cost a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Anyone interested in Stainless steel parts?!?! Yeah, i might. What I'm interested in is some kind of individual string/bridge option for doing multi-scale. I'm planning a multi-scale 8-string right now, and some form of bridge would be nice to have. :-) There aren't many options and they cost a fortune. Hmmm well I ain't got any individual string bridges planned . . . I should have a tune-o-matic 8 string soon - complete with 16" radius and lock down nuts made from solid stainless, just waiting on the sample now. Unlike Tonepros I actually get the bridges made not just tap out a $22 Gotoh bridge and stick a locking nut in it and sell it at $100. I should have ferrules, knobs and strap buttons also - I am currently waiting on the samples (the buttons and the ferrules are looking good, had a few hitches on the knobs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJE-Guitars Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Woah - over a full month and I ain't updated - well not that much has changed! Other than I now have the Bareknuckle pickups which allowed me to route and drill the body accordingly and it currently looks like this: (yes I know there is two gouges at the top . . caused by the chuck on the drill as a drilled out the cable run between the pickup cavities - but obviously these will disappear when the neck pocket is routed!) Still waiting on the bridge before I can shape the neck for the string spread . . . . . . sometimes things are just a bit to laid back over this part of the world! ps Also the line you can see down the middle ain't a glue line it a pencil line .. as I couldn't see the joint properly when I aligning the routing templates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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