Drak - Brown Sugar

[ToddW]

Hi Drak,

Couple of questions if you don't mind.

The second picture looks lighter than the first, is that because it's dry, because you sanded it a little, or is it just the flash?

And two, from the partially dyed picture, it looks like you wipe on the dye pretty dry. Is that the case?

Thanks,

Todd

[Drak]

I had it held up directly under the fluorescent light for the 2nd pic,

first was just laying on the table, further away from the light source.

Yes, this whole 'pre-wetting' dye thing I've heard about lately I have never done, ever.

I dye it from dry if that's what you're asking, that's the only way I've ever done it.

If you pre-wet the wood, the medium (water, alcohol, etc.) you use to pre-wet will:

1. Fill the very pores that I want filled with dye with the medium instead, stopping deep penetration.

and

2. Dilute the dye as well, which I don't want.

[Kenny]

droool.....

thats going to be STUNNING under a clearcoat!

[ToddW]

Hi Drak,

That's not really what I meant.

I meant are you soaking/saturating the wood with dye and then wiping off the excess, or is the "old sock" fairly dry when you are applying dye to the wood?

Also, since I've thought of it, how do you neutralize the bleach? Just rinse with water and de-whisker it with fine sandpaper, or vinegar, or . . . ?

Thanks,

Todd

[Drak]

Are you soaking/saturating the wood with dye and then wiping off the excess, or is the "old sock" fairly dry when you are applying dye to the wood?

I think I know what you mean.

I apply the dye in a 'first coat', which will usually leave swirl marks. Once I've got coverage, I do go back over it a few times to ensure even coverage.

Then, depending on what look I want, I may go back over it and start to remove some dye, or, if it's a sand back, I'll leave it dry, sand it back, and re-apply another color.

It just all depends on what I'm looking to do, that's why dying wood is so fun, there's a myriad of things you can do with it.

Also, since I've thought of it, how do you neutralize the bleach? Just rinse with water and de-whisker it with fine sandpaper, or vinegar, or?

Both. I've just re-wetted with water to rinse, and I've done the proper way with vinegar, I've never had any bad results either way, maybe because I usually wait a few days in either case before applying dye.

[marko_slash]

Yes. If you look back at the pics, you'll see that the natural wood had a lot of brown in it.

If you dye over the brown, you get brown + whatever color you dye it.

I wanted a true red, not a brownish red.

Bleaching it takes it to as white as you can get it so your color is not enhanced by the natural color of the wood.

People typically pay additional for pure white Maple, this is my way of getting pure white (as close as I can get it) Maple for no additional cost.

Great info, thanks!

[ToddW]

Awesome. Thanks for the explanation.

I hadn't actually considered that I could go back and remove dye as opposed to sanding it back, but that makes a lot of sense. I assume that if you wipe with a clean damp cloth, you pull more dye from the non-figured areas where the penetration is shallower.

I have to try that on a practice board!

[Drak]

I hadn't actually considered that I could go back and remove dye as opposed to sanding it back, but that makes a lot of sense. I assume that if you wipe with a clean damp cloth, you pull more dye from the non-figured areas where the penetration is shallower.

That is correct, and that's what I did here, although I wouldn't be caught dead taking credit for that method .

Perry and I use to battle it out regularly, I was always coming down on the side of sanding the first coat/dark dye back, Perry said it made the work look artificial to him, and he promoted wiping it back.

I still disagree somewhat with that assumption, but Perry certainly doesn't build any throwaways.

I believe David Myka wipes back as well.

Hell, maybe I'm in the minority with sanding back, hahaha!

Most of my guitars are flattops, as I honestly don't care much for carved/arched topped guitars (except for a jazzbox or something like that) so it was always easy for me to sand it back if I wanted, he and others were working more on carved tops, which obviously would not lean themselves to sanding dye back.

I don't think it would have made any difference to him in either case really, he prefers the wipe-back method.

Over the years I just added it into the toolbox, where really, pretty much anything goes if you understand the basics, they're all just different tools to use in the end.

One of the problems/issues I have with the wipe-back method is that most of the guitars I build now are chambered.

If your top lam is on the thin side, and you have chambers underneath it, wiping fluid over and over and over it again on that surface will almost certainly make your top lam cup down on you, warp inwards, and there's nothing you can do about it, you're top is toast if that happens. This guitar top has a pretty good thickness, so I wasn't too worried about it even tho it is heavily chambered.

If you're building solidbodies, or your lam is 1/4" or thicker, you usually wouldn't have much to worry about, but my lams can run thinner than that, so sometimes when I'm applying dye, I'm drying that sucker out as fast as it's going down to prevent warpage over a chamber.

[ae3]

That top is amazing, can't wait to see it all lacquered up.