Forgot Grainfiller, But...

[mhall]

Hi everyone.

I'm on my second build now. Thanks to everyone who offered advice on the first; your experience and insight made molehills out of mountains (particularly Drak and Wes the man). I'm officially an addict. My second build is gloss black with clear gloss topcoats over a poplar body. I was unaware the grain texture would be visible. My first build was just a clearcoat, so I never thought about it. I realize now I should have used grainfiller for that mirror finish. My question is this: does anyone know if gloss black and gloss topcoat looks good over unfilled wood, or does it just look like a sloppy finishing job? Any pics? If it looks interesting I may just go for it. If not, how do I know I've sanded off the sealer coats completely before filling? Thanks.

Matt

[Ken Bennett]

Most importantly, if you don't like it, then you have to change it.

Generally speaking, speaking for myself that is, satin and low gloss lacquers, as long as they are not too thick, as well as oil and oil-varnish finishes look fine on open pored woods.

If you decide to fill, I don't think it matters whether all of sealer is sanded off or not. The grain filler will bind to it (it is common to spray a washcoat before filling anyway). Anything you do at the filling and sealing stages will be masked by the opaque black.

[killemall8]

Ok, your a little confused here.

Poplar doesnt need grain filler. grain filler is for wood that has open pores, such as mahogany and wenge.

Your seeing the grain lines because you did not spray and sand it back enough. with any wood you need to spray and level it out. with poplar i usually have to put quite a few heavy coats of primer to get teh grain lines hidden.

[mhall]

Ok, your a little confused here.

Poplar doesnt need grain filler. grain filler is for wood that has open pores, such as mahogany and wenge.

Your seeing the grain lines because you did not spray and sand it back enough. with any wood you need to spray and level it out. with poplar i usually have to put quite a few heavy coats of primer to get teh grain lines hidden.

I've sprayed 3 more black coats and noticed the grain getting less pronounced. If I use enough clear to level it out, will the grain still show since it's showing in the black?

[Tim37]

yes you are gonna want it level befor clearing it other wise the clear can acutaly make it look worse.

[Mender]

I've sprayed 3 more black coats and noticed the grain getting less pronounced. If I use enough clear to level it out, will the grain still show since it's showing in the black?

I take it you are actually sanding each coat flat before you apply the next coat? That is the secret of getting rid of the grain pattern.

[Drak]

The pores may look like they're lessening, but as your finish dries and shrinks over time, they will more than likely re-appear on you.

Finish is not recommended to use as a pore filler for this reason, although if you have enough patience, it can be done, but it will extend your build time considerably and can come back to haunt you.

Typically, even after I have flat-sanded a finish several times in building finish coats, I still wait 6 weeks or more to do my final sanding/buff out, as the longer you wait, the more the finish is shrinking back, the better your chances your finish will stay flat through the upcoming years.

Self-catalyzing finishes like cat-laq and 2-part poly have hardly any shrinkback issues, but I use regular lacquer, which does continue to shrink as it dries over time.

If you're not too far along in the process, I would sand it back and use either CYA glue (my preferred) or 2-part epoxy as a pore filler, fill those pores, sand it back dead flat, then put your black on and enjoy a perfectly smooth and flat guitar body.

[ihocky2]

I've done several guitars out of poplar and have never grain filled a single one. If I am painting them I lay down two or three coats of primer, depending how bad the first coat gets absorbed into the wood. Then level sand the primer until it is dead flat. Then paint and clear. For the transparents I sand the body up to 400 grit to really smooth things out and then dye. Then I'll apply a few coats of clear to seal the wood and sand it level. Then any color coats and then clear.

[mhall]

The pores may look like they're lessening, but as your finish dries and shrinks over time, they will more than likely re-appear on you.

Finish is not recommended to use as a pore filler for this reason, although if you have enough patience, it can be done, but it will extend your build time considerably and can come back to haunt you.

Typically, even after I have flat-sanded a finish several times in building finish coats, I still wait 6 weeks or more to do my final sanding/buff out, as the longer you wait, the more the finish is shrinking back, the better your chances your finish will stay flat through the upcoming years.

Self-catalyzing finishes like cat-laq and 2-part poly have hardly any shrinkback issues, but I use regular lacquer, which does continue to shrink as it dries over time.

If you're not too far along in the process, I would sand it back and use either CYA glue (my preferred) or 2-part epoxy as a pore filler, fill those pores, sand it back dead flat, then put your black on and enjoy a perfectly smooth and flat guitar body.

I was just wondering - can I apply sealer over the black until it's flat and then continue with black? Will this work?

[Drak]

I wouldn't recommend it...at this point, I would just keep applying black coats until it's filled and level and done.