Johnny Foreigner Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Finally got my jointer and got it set up. First job is to joint a whole bunch of neck laminates. Most of them, however, are much thinner than the minimum thickness they say you should joint on the jointer - plus they have a fair bit of bend which I imagine won't do me any favors. The faces being jointed are 13/16" wide, which is fine, but then the lams are as thin as 0.25". My initial idea is simply to double-sided tape the lams to taller pieces and use those for ridigity and stability.... or is there a better way. and before anyone says it, I've just bought this jointer, so I'm not "just going to learn how to joint with a plane"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I laminate first, then joint the laminations all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I laminate first, then joint the laminations all together. but if the lams are rough from ripping on the bandsaw, the edges won't glue up well... hence the need to joint in order to glue up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If I am reading this right ,get the two bigger pieces of wood all ready to be joined.Then ,laminate them ,hanging over and matching the laminate where the wood joins.You can just sand off the hang over and you are ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I laminate first, then joint the laminations all together. but if the lams are rough from ripping on the bandsaw, the edges won't glue up well... hence the need to joint in order to glue up. Ah... jointed on the sides, not the face... Do you have a thicknessing planer? A drum sander? Usually, they go down to 1/8" or so. Even easier... if you have the Rigid oscillating spindle sander, you can slide the pieces between the sanding drum and a fence that rides in the miter slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Okay, now I'm confused. Here's how my neck will end up: the center strip (padauk) and the two strips next to it (maple) are rough on the faces that will be glued to each other and to the outer pieces (bubinga) So I want to joint those faces before I can glue up the pieces to form the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 You need to find a way to sand the glue faces parallel especially if you're planning to layer like the neck in the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops1983 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 You need to find a way to sand the glue faces parallel especially if you're planning to layer like the neck in the picture. Dougs spot on but in other words, joint one face of the pieces and then run them through a thicknesser. Once all your lams have parallel faces glue them up making a rough neck blank and then joint one edge of that and thickness the other. We are all thinking the same thing the way you have explained it, so if this isn't your answer then we are interpreting it wrong. Anyway hope that helps. Chad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 i dont think your getting the straight answer you want because what your asking is just dangerous; thin lams should go thru a thicknessing machine, a planer would work but one snipe or tearout on a thin piece would ruin it, i like your idea of double sided taping it and going that way, but in the end i doubt if they would be equally thick, they would be flat on both sides on the end but it wouldnt be true, its just not what a jointer was meant to do. imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks all - to clarify I understand the jointer won't give me parallel sides, but I need to at least get one side flat so I can use the planer to get the other side parallel and flat. I think I'm going to try the initial idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 If you have already cut the lams,then it will be much more difficult to do. If I were to do it from scratch, here is what I would do: joint one side of paduak and one side of maple from the raw board, and rip your strip (plus a little extra) from one of the two. Glue the strip you just cut to the whole board using the just-jointed faces and let dry. After dry, joint the rough face from ripping the thin strip and then rip the whole board that was glued to to get the strip of that wood. Repeat the sequence of gluing up the ripped lams to a whole board of the next lam over. Then you get nice jointed faces, don't need a thickness planer, don't do anything dangerous, reduce the risk of tearout, etc. The only downside is that it will be very time consuming. If you have a thickness planer, just double stick tape the thin lam to a thicker board that is also longer than your lam, be careful of tearout, make sure you have enough waste on the ends, etc. Drum sander is even better, but I'm guessing you don't have one of those. If we assume you only have a jointer and a band saw and that you already cut the lams and they all have rough faces (hardest case), then the double stick tape thing MIGHT work, but I would use some intense tape, since the risk of the initial blade contact taking your lam and tearing it to shreds is pretty high. And just as a side note, you have to learn how to joint with a jointer, too. There is plenty of technique to it and you also want to make sure the thing is set up properly, as you can ruin your project very quickly with a jointer if it isn't set up right. Anyway, best of luck, hope it works out well for you. Let us know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Build a Drum Sander on your drill press. Get a 3" sanding drum and chuck it up in your drill press. Make a fence the same height as the Drum. Set the fence to the thickness you want (meaning the gap between the fence and the Drum) and have at it. Do a google search for Drill Press Thickness Sander and you will come up with several examples. Don't hurt yourself or your wood using a jointer for thin lams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Build a Drum Sander on your drill press. Get a 3" sanding drum and chuck it up in your drill press. Make a fence the same height as the Drum. Set the fence to the thickness you want (meaning the gap between the fence and the Drum) and have at it. Do a google search for Drill Press Thickness Sander and you will come up with several examples. Don't hurt yourself or your wood using a jointer for thin lams. i'll give that a go. Thanks RAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Build a Drum Sander on your drill press. Get a 3" sanding drum and chuck it up in your drill press. Make a fence the same height as the Drum. Set the fence to the thickness you want (meaning the gap between the fence and the Drum) and have at it. Do a google search for Drill Press Thickness Sander and you will come up with several examples. Don't hurt yourself or your wood using a jointer for thin lams. i'll give that a go. Thanks RAD. Yeah don't be using a jointer for thin lams it's scary doing stuff like that. It's foolish to try stuff like that, I learned that the hard way. You mentioned that glueing the strips together right out of the table saw won't glue up right. Thats what I always do with thin laminates and have never had problems. I joint if it's a three piece neck and the pieces are bigger but otherwise I don't and I have never had problems. Just glue them up as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Build a Drum Sander on your drill press. Get a 3" sanding drum and chuck it up in your drill press. Make a fence the same height as the Drum. Set the fence to the thickness you want (meaning the gap between the fence and the Drum) and have at it. Do a google search for Drill Press Thickness Sander and you will come up with several examples. Don't hurt yourself or your wood using a jointer for thin lams. i'll give that a go. Thanks RAD. Yeah don't be using a jointer for thin lams it's scary doing stuff like that. It's foolish to try stuff like that, I learned that the hard way. You mentioned that glueing the strips together right out of the table saw won't glue up right. Thats what I always do with thin laminates and have never had problems. I joint if it's a three piece neck and the pieces are bigger but otherwise I don't and I have never had problems. Just glue them up as is. sorry; horrible advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 sorry; horrible advice. Well think what you want. I have never had an issue with it, neither has the two othe luthiers in my area. Maybe it works for some maybe not and I'm not claiming to be the best just saying what works for me and in all honesty I have found a lot of things on this site that people say are "the right way" to do things kind of impracticle but maybe that's just me and I'm not saying that everything has been that I have learned a TON don't get me wrong. This site is probably what keeps me building because it always gives me something new to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 different strokes for different folks! lol! i do alot of things myself i would never advise someone else to do; and im not saying its not possible to make 2 pieces of wood stick together with glue straight off the table saw, im saying that its not a quality i would expect from someone taking themselves seriously should settle for; my first bass neck ever was glued up off a table saw, and at that time i was satisfied, but now that i know waht a real glue line looks like its not even something id show my grandmother; but if somehow you have a table saw blade and some kind of feed that can cut a prestine line that perfect, i would say go with it....as your thickness, but 100% hit those gluing edges with the jointer, count passes, and make sure you take off exactly the same amount on every lam and you can pass it off as perfect. if were gonna touch on personal opinions, a characteristic of a glue joint should be suction cup like grab between the 2 pieces with only hand pressure fitting with glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 I have glued up thin lams right off the table saw, but I joint one side before running it through the saw, use a 40 or 50 tooth blade, slow and constant feed pressure (after making sure that the blade is dead on 90, etc.). It usually works quite well. Of course, some of the lams are less than an 1/8 thick, but if I do see any trouble, it goes through the planer on a backer board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 different strokes for different folks! lol! i do alot of things myself i would never advise someone else to do; and im not saying its not possible to make 2 pieces of wood stick together with glue straight off the table saw, im saying that its not a quality i would expect from someone taking themselves seriously should settle for; my first bass neck ever was glued up off a table saw, and at that time i was satisfied, but now that i know waht a real glue line looks like its not even something id show my grandmother; but if somehow you have a table saw blade and some kind of feed that can cut a prestine line that perfect, i would say go with it....as your thickness, but 100% hit those gluing edges with the jointer, count passes, and make sure you take off exactly the same amount on every lam and you can pass it off as perfect. if were gonna touch on personal opinions, a characteristic of a glue joint should be suction cup like grab between the 2 pieces with only hand pressure fitting with glue. I think you missed what I was saying. I was saying I don't joint the thin laminates so say I had a 5 piece neck maple, walnut, maple, walnut, maple with the middle three strips being 1/8th inch or less I don't joint the thin strips but I will joint the main two pieces of maple on the inside edges so the thin laminates get glued on a jointed surfaceon at least one side. So basically I was saying just glue the thin strips up straight out of the table saw. I have glued up thin lams right off the table saw, but I joint one side before running it through the saw, use a 40 or 50 tooth blade, slow and constant feed pressure (after making sure that the blade is dead on 90, etc.). It usually works quite well. Of course, some of the lams are less than an 1/8 thick, but if I do see any trouble, it goes through the planer on a backer board. That's the same thing I do I always stress to make sure the edge going against the table saw fence is perfectly jointed so you get a flat cut. I'm a little hesitant at cutting thin strips now though after my saw bit my finger. I was talking to Prostheta about that and he says he doesn't use table saws because they are uncaring beasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low end fuzz Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 so whats the problem?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 he says he doesn't use table saws because they are uncaring beasts. HA HA!! I don't own a table saw so that's not even option. Plus they scare me. so we thin strips can go through the planer carpet-taped to a backing board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 he says he doesn't use table saws because they are uncaring beasts. HA HA!! I don't own a table saw so that's not even option. Plus they scare me. so we thin strips can go through the planer carpet-taped to a backing board? yes and no. Depends on your carpet tape. The carpet tape I have you couldn't get accurate results with. It is thick as duct tape and will stick a saddle to a mule. So the pieces will give a little as the tape compresses. Not what you want... Now if you have good double-sided tape that is more like masking tape that should work without issue. However sometimes it is not as sticky as the carpet tape I use so YMMV. As long as the pieces do not move you should be ok... Safety First! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Foreigner Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Safety First! That's usually why I ask questions on here - not to see if something will work, but whether it can be done safely. I will approach with caution, and out of the flight path of potential missiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFly Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 When i do my violin ribs, i use carpet tape on a flat slab, stick my sides on it next to each other, and plane them both at the same time via block plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalhead28 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Machine one face of the board flat on the jointer before you rip your laminate from it - then run it through a planer. It's nice to have a perfectly flat face on the fence when you rip it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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