Fabric dye works great!

[Southpa]

I was looking around for something to stain a guitar without having to worry about fume protection etc. Basically, doing all this in my living/computer/studio room and its winter outside. I also want this guitar to be blue. I wandered into a place called Fanny's Fabrics, lol, lots of little old ladies buying knitting and sewing materials. I certainly didn't fit in. I enquired about any sorts of stains they might have which could be used to color wood. She brings me over to a display of tiny cans. Its basically, powdered fabric dye, very potent medicine. Add a little water and rub on with a rag and you get perfect coverage and dries fast. The wood grain shows thru nicely and its ready for clearcoat. Its amazing what you can use in place of the more expensive alternatives. This stuff comes in a ton of colors and only cost me 3 bucks Cdn. per unit. You could easily cover 2 guitars with one can.

[Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars]

Food dye is great too. Better selection in the fab dye tho.

[Setch]

Unfortunately the real test of dyes in this kind of application is how well they resist fading. Most things you use will look great now, but you'll be pretty pissed in three years if they fade to a murky mess.

I'd be particularly worried about using food dyes - permenence is not likely to be a consideration when producing a dye for something you're going to eat in a few days anyway...

[JPL]

As far as alternative stains go I think that the Dylon or other cold water procion type dyes are by far the best bet. Rit and food colorings are not fade resistant under UV light. I have used food coloring and even with little exposure to sunlight there has been a slight but noticeable fading after one year. The only thing I wonder about is that when dying fabric with a cold water dye soda ash is used as a fixative. I don't know if this is necessary with wood unless you will be running your axe through the washing machine.

When dying fabric the soda ash is often soaked into the cloth instead of mixed into the dye to give the mixed dye a longer shelf life. You could mix the soda ash in with the dye but it gives you a working time of a couple of hours so only mix up what you need for that session. On the other hand the soda ash is rather caustic so I'm not sure it is good for the wood or if it will react with the finish and it might be some time before you find out if there is a problem.

Urea is also used to control spread. It might be interesting to experiment to see what effects could be accomplished with different combinations of chemicals.

After fifteen years of using that crap I swore that I would never touch it again. Now you have my wheels turning. Anyone have some scrap quilt I could borrow?

[westhemann]

Unfortunately the real test of dyes in this kind of application is how well they resist fading. Most things you use will look great now, but you'll be pretty pissed in three years if they fade to a murky mess.

I'd be particularly worried about using food dyes - permenence is not likely to be a consideration when producing a dye for something you're going to eat in a few days anyway...

i agree with setch...the first thing you look for is uv resistance,of which food coloring has none.

be careful with the soda ash...i don't know if it is anything like caustic soda,but that stuff turns wood into a dead looking mess...except whjen used lightly on mahogany,then it seems to bring out the color.

[Drak]

I can understand the 'close by the house' thing, but price and fumes I don't quite get.

I use (primarily) Lockwood powdered anilyne dyes (water-based and alcohol-based), and I bought all my colors about 7 years ago, and have yet to burn thru even 1 complete package yet, even the yellow which I use *all the time* to start most of my basecoat amber colors, I still have 1/2 the packet (2 oz. dry powder I think)

$8.00/packet spread out over 7-8 years, used dozens and dozens and dozens of times (I'm serious, I use that stuff all the time) and still more left, and it's the proper, non-fading dyes, so the money thing I don't understand. Dyes, to me, are one of the best deals in this business.

Even a bottle of solar lux (non-fading anilyne alcohol dye) lasts me for years, and I use all these colors a LOT. Out of 11 bottles of Solar Lux, the only bottle I ever needed to replace so far is black, since I use that to do my 'stain black and sand back', I go thru an extra heaping of that stuff, but that's it.

Just me, but one of the things I've learned over the years is not to take unwarranted chances that might ruin a project that I spent the better part of a year putting together. It's just asking for trouble down the road. At least that's my experience. But I -did- learn that lesson the hard way, I screwed up an awful lot of stuff up in my more experimental days before learning to stick with the winners, they are winners for a reason, because they are time-tested winners and they work.

And that goes for experimenting with:

glues

dyes

odd-ball, untested woods

super-cheap tools

finish materials (finishes, pore-fillers, sanding sealers, mixing different products from different manufacturers, etc.)

Years ago I might have been tempted to try something like that, I wouldn't go near it now unless it listed the ingredients and I can understand what it's made of and know for a certainty that it's compatable with my finish.

Too many shipwrecks already, I'm tired of surprise shipwrecks and sanding finishes off. I'd like to maintain some distance from those days, so I'm not so tempted to try stuff like that now. As long as you know what the base ingredients of that dye are, and they're compatable with the finish you use, then cool beans.

[Guest Litchfield Custom Gutars]

Unfortunately the real test of dyes in this kind of application is how well they resist fading. Most things you use will look great now, but you'll be pretty pissed in three years if they fade to a murky mess.

I'd be particularly worried about using food dyes - permenence is not likely to be a consideration when producing a dye for something you're going to eat in a few days anyway...

The whole reason I mix mine with Minwax polycrylic. That and the ability to wet sand. I dont know, it has been working, and there is no fade.

[JPL]

Caustic soda is derived from sodium chloride and soda ash is made by heating simple sodium bicarbonate until it turns to ash. Even then I just don't think the soda ash is necessary or a good idea. By caustic I meant that it would eat up my fragile skin after working with it in large quantities for hours. Unpleasant but not especially dangerous.

There is no real concern with fading using the Dylon. I had a shirt hanging in my store window for about two years as a demo to show the durability of the dye.

I do think it's best to use a proper wood dye but I can see some circumstances where the fabric dye might not be a bad idea. But I would run a lot of long term tests on scrap first. My main concerns would be workability and reactions with the clear coat.

[Southpa]

OK, to set a few minds at rest. The guitar I'm using this stuff on is an old EKO archtop, so no great loss there if things go wrong. I like the dye itself because its really easy to apply, non-toxic, dries really fast and seems to enhance the woodgrain nicely. Once the dye is rubbed on it will leave surface crystals as it dries. When totally dry, about 10 min. later, just wipe off the crystals and reapply as needed or clearcoat. I chose two colors, Madonna blue for the neck and Kingfisher blue for the front and back. The sides are Madonna overlaid with a couple coats of Kingfisher to get a darker Kingfisher look which will tie in with the dark neck. I'm using polyurethane clearcoat and it seems to be covering well, no funky things going on. The guitar looks awesome right now. I still have to coat the back and then begin wetsanding and polishing. Will get pics taken later on.

[Snork]

post a couple of pics of the fabric dye in action!