No Head Guitar

[keyblade_crafter]

first off i have to say i've never made a guitar before and i hardly play, but i am a woodworker.

i'm working on a prop guitar that i think has the body of a '62 stratocaster and the pickup layout of an ibanez. i'm already halfway done making the body, and i've ordered the electronic parts like the pickups, bridge, knob, and switch.

the question: How do i make the head so you could actually tune and play the guitar? i can change the area above the fretboard. i was thinking i could make a cone shaped head and hide it inside a compartment above the fretboard. i know steinbecks tune from the bottom and have no head, but this doesnt have the tailpiece like that.

[SwedishLuthier]

Strange guitar... Right, its a prop.

I think you should have a look at the Steinberg gearless tuners:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Steinberger_Gearless_Tuners.html

or geared banjo tuners. All of them are "straight", meaning they do not have an angled worm gear (I think thats the name anyway) so you don't have to have tuner pegs sticking out

This will nevertheless be a very hard to play guitar. The part on each side of the fret board will hinder the hand to reach the neck and make playing extremely uncomfortably. And the gun grip at ~12'th fret will limit upper fret action. So more or less (and please take this in the right way): why bother with the tuners as the guitar will not be really playable anyway?

[keyblade_crafter]

Thanks for replying! Those tuners are exactly what i'm looking for! The only thing is it's too expensive at that site for my client. Does the shape of the head matter? I need it to be a compact design so i can hide it in a hollow compartment in the gun section. As long as the strings dont touch right?

i suppose it would be very hard to play, but it would still be awesome if it was able to be played. If it's not possible within the price range, i guess i'll have to deal with it. any idea what the tuning mechanism is called that locks as you turn it?

[keyblade_crafter]

Or would it be possible to screw the ends at the top down firmly and then use the bridge to tune? Since the electric parts cost too much and i'll have to just make it LOOK like an electric guitar, i'll be using acoustic strings if that makes a difference in tuning.

[curtisa]

How about a headless bridge setup? If cost is an issue there are several sellers on Ebay that offer headless assemblies for under a hundred bucks. The string nut/clamp could hide under the barrel block at the top of the neck. You may have to recess behind the bridge to allow access to the tuning thumbscrews.

[keyblade_crafter]

Whoa thanks for that! That may be just what i was looking for. How would i hold the strings down at the other end? Should i use pegs with a hole in them? I think the compartment lid may be able to hold the pegs down if i do that.

[Tim37]

yeah I was thinking something along those lines

isn't there a Floyd rose model that allows for a headless guitar?

[curtisa]

Whoa thanks for that! That may be just what i was looking for. How would i hold the strings down at the other end? Should i use pegs with a hole in them? I think the compartment lid may be able to hold the pegs down if i do that.

All the parts are there to secure both ends of the strings. The nut has an integral anchoring system to hold the strings in place, while at the uh..."ammo clip" end of the guitar the tuners form part of the bridge assembly to secure and tension the strings to pitch.

yeah I was thinking something along those lines

isn't there a Floyd rose model that allows for a headless guitar?

Yep - you're thinking of the Floyd Rose Speedloader.

[SwedishLuthier]

A tremolo for a headless guitar would of cause work, but you stated that you already had ordered the bridge. If 99$ are too much for the steinberg tuners, be prepared to shell out at least the double for a speedloader Floyd Rose bridge, and just maybee get your money back for the bridge you have already bought.

Traditional friction banjo tuners are also available, although you need two sets...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Banjo_tuners/Grover_Champion_Friction_Banjo_Tuners.html

And those are a real PITA to use.

In the end you need to consider this:

Is this a prop or a real instrument?

If it is a prop (your suggestion to use acoustic guitar strings to save a buck or two suggests exactly that) you can attach the strings at the head with dry wall screws and forget about the rest. If you on the other hand want this to be a "real" instrument, dont be cheep and try to get a good working instrument and then save on things like tuners or bridge.

[Tim37]

There is a zztop vid where they use prop guitars they took standard stratocasters put a locking nut on them and just pulled the strings tight. Yeah they are just vid props but if thats what yout looking for that would be the easiest way slap a locking nut on there and forget it

[keyblade_crafter]

A tremolo for a headless guitar would of cause work, but you stated that you already had ordered the bridge. If 99$ are too much for the steinberg tuners, be prepared to shell out at least the double for a speedloader Floyd Rose bridge, and just maybee get your money back for the bridge you have already bought.

Traditional friction banjo tuners are also available, although you need two sets...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Banjo_tuners/Grover_Champion_Friction_Banjo_Tuners.html

And those are a real PITA to use.

In the end you need to consider this:

Is this a prop or a real instrument?

If it is a prop (your suggestion to use acoustic guitar strings to save a buck or two suggests exactly that) you can attach the strings at the head with dry wall screws and forget about the rest. If you on the other hand want this to be a "real" instrument, dont be cheep and try to get a good working instrument and then save on things like tuners or bridge.

Well the client says it's too much to pay to make it work, so i'll just be making it a prop that uses acoustic strings and primitive tuning pegs underneath a compartment directly above the fretboard so you can sort of tune it. the compartment lid will have a slit for the strings to pass over the nose and through to the pegs and the it will also hold the pegs down when closed.

Thanks for the help guys! I'll leave a picture when i finish.

[keyblade_crafter]

Oh by the way, would anyone happen to know the length of the average stratocaster fretboard? I found a site to give the specific length from the nut to place the frets.

[SwedishLuthier]

Stewmac has a fret position calculator. You just need to know that the scale length of a strat is 25.5":

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Fretting/i-fretcalc.html

[keyblade_crafter]

Thanks! And one last thing: in the calculator, should i put electric fret spacing or acoustic? Since i'm using acoustic strings i thought maybe acoustic. I'm using regular wooden rods instead of magnets for the pickups so those woudn't affect the sound, but would having a strat bridge affect it?

[Tim37]

fret spacing is fretspaceing the scale is what you go by.

if I was you I would buy a ultra cheap guitar off ebay and yank the parts off it http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burswood-Model-JE-3SD-Electric-Guitar-With-SD-Card-Recording-Playback-/370892915831?pt=Guitar&hash=item565af0c477 something like that would save you some money you can reuse the bridge cut the head off and glue what ever parts you need onto the neck use the pickups and all the other little stuff.

[keyblade_crafter]

Yeah i knida figure that, but i want to know if i should use the electric guitar fret spacing or the acoustic if i'm using acoustic strings on an electric bridge. The pickups wont actually work, but does the fact it's an electric bridge affect the fret spacing at all? Is there that much of a difference between the acoustic and electric spacing?

And i already decided i'm making the prop myself. I'm not gonna buy a guitar because it would cost too much for the client. It's cheaper to just buy the parts. Plus it will be handmade which makes it more impressive for those asking about it.

[curtisa]

The bridge you use has no bearing on the fret spacing.

If this instrument is all about the looks rather than the playability I'd suggest that it only needs to be built in such a way that it could convince a casual observer that it is guitar-art.

Use the Stewart Macdonald fret position calculator posted earlier and enter "25.5" for the scale length, "21" for the number of frets and set the "instrument" field to "Electric Guitar". Install your frets and bridge on the instrument as close as practicable to figures given in the table generated by the calculator. Leave about 8mm past the end of the 21st fret to allow for fretboard overhang. There's no need to get too carried away with accuracy to three decimal places on an instrument that can't be tuned or amplified.

In keeping with the "looks" aspect of this build I'd install electric guitar strings, even if you can't tune them properly. Just get enough tension on them to pull them taut and not have any sag along the length of the neck.

[keyblade_crafter]

Alright, as i said before a few times now, while it is a prop, i will be using acoustic strings so sound actually comes out when you play the strings. I will be using diy tuning pegs hidden in a compartment, tapered on one end, stuck in in a holes, and held down by a compartment lid.

After further examination, electric and acoustic fret spacing is the same according to the calculator which was suggested and i already knew about and i said i knew about even before that. I will make this guitar work as well i as i can make it work so it is a working prop guitar.

The reason i need it to play is because the prop is carrid by a character named Alice in a book called "last man standing", and the author and illustrator of that book will be at the convention photoshoot my client is going to. If the author likes it, there's a chance he will have me make other characters' props for photoshoots.

[curtisa]

Sorry if I came across a bit standoff-ish, certainly wasn't intended. I guess some of us are trying to understand exactly how playable you want it to be, ie a fully working instrument, a device that will offer some degree of playable interaction with the user, or something that is only used for its visual impact.

I wish you good luck with your project, and am still interested to see the finished product!

[SwedishLuthier]

Oooookay, so this is what we talk about:

As curtisa says, I think most of os have problems understanding what level of playability you are shooting for, i.e. should the guitar be able to tune to the right pitch or does it only need to be able to have the strings tensioned enough for the not to slack noticeably. If it is the later, use whatever to stretch the strings to a decent tension, if it is the first, you need some type of "proper" tuning pegs. Simple as that. Even if it is dulcimer tuning pegs that need a wrench to tune the strings. 0.67 a pop it can't be too expensive...

As you said in the first post:

the question: How do i make the head so you could actually tune and play the guitar?

With that in mind you get:

The answer: Use proper tuning machines

And please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm seriously trying to help you out here, but there are certain decisions you need to make, se above, before we really can help you.

[keyblade_crafter]

I dont mind you answering questions or anything, but if you read all the posts you'll see i already decided how i'm going to make it.

[SwedishLuthier]

And you don't have to be rude! I have carefully read all your posts and seen you go off with completely wrong decisions without listening at all

What you said was

i need it to play

And your current plan will not allow it to play. Period. Over and Out

[VesQ]

I don´t understand the obsession to use acoustic strings with electric guitar bridge and pickups. And then it´s too expensive to buy proper tuners but it´s okay to spend money on pickups that wont work in first place. Working for a customer for and missing some basic info about guitarbuilding. Whole idea seems kinda amusing to me.

[Tim37]

Because he has absolutely no idea what he is doing and wont accept the advise that he asked for.