Horrible plinky sound caused by nut

[abt]

Greetings!

When my Mayones Reguis 7 arrived a few years ago one of the first things I did was to change the strings to a heavier gauge. All was well. After a few years I started to notice a horrible plingy, plinky, harmonic type sound, imagine playing a harmonic an inch away from the bridge, when palm muting the low B - 7^th string. After some experimenting I notice that it was caused by the nut. I filled the nut slot with the old super glue baking powder trick and the problem was solved.

Recently I change my string gauge to be lighter and the problem returned, this time on the low E – 6^th string. Being higher in pitch the sound is even more annoying. It should be noted that the problem is only when playing open note palm mutes, fretted notes sound fine.

Straight away I went for the fill the nut slot solution but it didn’t work. It did make it slightly better I think (confirmation bias?). After more experimenting, filling, raising, etc I decided this nut had to go so I replaced it with a new pre-cut XUSQ XL. It made no difference.

So after even more experimenting I fashioned a temporary Zero fret nut and the problem is gone.

Can anyone offer me some idea of what the problem is and how to fix it? I’m sure your saying ‘why not just install a proper zero fret nut’ and I may do that, but I’m not sure that’s the right solution for me.

[seamusoc]

I'd check the angle the slot is cut at compared to the string angle going towards the tuners, there mightn't be enough of an angle cut in it to help the string sit right (if you press down on the string behind the nut and play does the problem disappear?). I'd check the width of the slot compared to the string too (it might be too wide). The tusq nut might have been pre-slot for a heavier gauge if you have gone to a very light gauge (and your file might have been too wide when you were reshaping the old nut). Maybe try refilling the slot on the old nut and then re-slotting it with a thinner file than last time and then filing it in a kind of a 'V' profile until the string just about fits.

They're the only two reasons I can think of that would form over time on the nut. I'm certainly no expert but hope that helps

[Workingman]

When you filled the nut you raised it but narrower gauge strings could still be moving in the slot if you didn't get the width right. Also as mentioned Seamusoc, the angle is important. With all the filling I think a new nut may be in order.

[seamusoc]

He has already tried a new nut without fixing the problem I thought that if you managed to fix the problem on the old nut you could then fix it on the new one, without having to mess around with your brand new nut

[curtisa]

If you're sure the nut isn't the culrpit:

• Resonating string(s) behind the nut? Tie a sock around the strings behind the nut and see if it changes/helps things.
• Flat spot on the bridge saddle that may only be a problem when a particular pitch is used to excite the "noise"?
• First fret is a tad high, causing the open string to rattle against the top surface of the fret?
• Something else on the guitar rattling in symapthy with the string in question? Loose covers? Strap buttons? Battery boxes? Jack sockets?

Changing from a heavy to a light gauge set of strings without checking the neck relief may have introduced other problems. Perhaps the reduced tension on from the lighter strings compared to the heavier set has allowed the neck to bow back slightly allowing some strings to start brushing against the fret tops when played?

[abt]

Thanks for the replies.

The nut I replaced it with is a pre-cut TUSQ. I have yet to try swapping the saddle, it’s a possibility. I'm pretty sure it's not anything else. I did make minor adjustments to the truss rod and saddles for intonation when I changed string gauges. I’ve checked the frets with a fret rocker.

Having said all that I'm not sure of anything anymore. Maybe it's just me, or my playing, or maybe it's just how the guitar sounds.

The thing is the issue wasn't there with heavier strings. Well, it did happen on low B but that was fixed by filling the nut slot. The problem it also not there for any other note except for the low open E and only palm mutes. I suspect that it may still be there for non-palm muted notes, just masked by the open note.

[seamusoc]

• Something else on the guitar rattling in symapthy with the string in question? Loose covers? Strap buttons? Battery boxes? Jack sockets?

Just thinking out loud, if the cause of the problem is the pitch of the note, would a way of checking that be to tune the string down a half step and then play the same note at the first fret?

Considering that with the new nut you're still having problems with the low E and not the low B as far as I understand it, it's probably not touching the frets because the low B should be lower than the E.

Have you ruled out the noise coming from behind the nut or the slot being pre-cut too wide for the E string that you are using?

[pan_kara]

hmm, interesting problem. I had weird sounds on open strings on strats when I didn't put in the string trees, but the regius has an angled headstock so this can't be it. Here's some random ideas:

- how much does the effect show up through pickups (as opposed to unplugged)? If it comes in 100% through the pickup then its probably not some stuff rattling around the guitar

- are you sure you have enough clearance between the nut slot and the 1st fret? You could shim the nut temporarily or something.

- try tuning the string down and up - does it change anything? (if this is a resonance it should go away or at least get weaker)

- does holding down/pressing down the string behind the nut make any difference?

[abt]

• Something else on the guitar rattling in symapthy with the string in question? Loose covers? Strap buttons? Battery boxes? Jack sockets?

Just thinking out loud, if the cause of the problem is the pitch of the note, would a way of checking that be to tune the string down a half step and then play the same note at the first fret?

Considering that with the new nut you're still having problems with the low E and not the low B as far as I understand it, it's probably not touching the frets because the low B should be lower than the E.

Have you ruled out the noise coming from behind the nut or the slot being pre-cut too wide for the E string that you are using?

If I tune down a semi tone then play the E at the first fret the problem is gone. You can still hear it in the open Eb but it's not as obvious.

I have damping material behind the nut so I don't think its that. Not sure if the slot is too wide, it look pretty good.

hmm, interesting problem. I had weird sounds on open strings on strats when I didn't put in the string trees, but the regius has an angled headstock so this can't be it. Here's some random ideas:

- how much does the effect show up through pickups (as opposed to unplugged)? If it comes in 100% through the pickup then its probably not some stuff rattling around the guitar

- are you sure you have enough clearance between the nut slot and the 1st fret? You could shim the nut temporarily or something.

- try tuning the string down and up - does it change anything? (if this is a resonance it should go away or at least get weaker)

- does holding down/pressing down the string behind the nut make any difference?

Actually the Mayones guitar are notorious for there ringing behind the nut. I have a pad, not sure what it is, it's like felt under the strings and they're dead.

- Acoustically it's very prevalent, maybe even more than through the pups

- I think so, I'm not hearing what I'd expect to hear if the slot was too deep. I will give this a try though.

- the sound is still there but it's way more prevalent when the note is E

- No

I'm starting to think more and more that it's me and not the guitar.

Thanks a lot for the replies. Despite the fact this is driving me mad it's nice to talk to you guys.

[curtisa]

Behind-the-nut symapethic string ringing is a function of several factors - headstock angle, length of string behind the nut, tension of the string, clearance of the nutslot either side of the string as it passes over...The resonation may even be across non-related strings.

That said, if you have all strings effectively dampened behind the nut then the noise can't be coming from there.

You have a new pre-cut nut installed. It's still possible that the pre-cut nut slots are too wide for the strings you have installed and allow sufficient side-to-side movement of the string to cause audible interference when played open. I'm not familiar with the Regius, but if it also has a shallow headstock angle this may exacerbate the problem as there may not be enough back angle to "pin" the string securely into the bottom of the slot.

Try squeezing your thumbnail against either side of the string right at the point where it passes over the nut and play the string. If the additional thumbnail pressure is enough to make the noise disappear it's likely your precut nut slots are too wide (or perhaps even flat-bottomed) for the gauge strings you're using. Another possibility is that the bottom surface of the nut or the nut shelf on the headstock has been mis-shaped with a slight foward angle allowing the nut slots to taper forward underneath the string as it passes over.

[seamusoc]

Actually the Mayones guitar are notorious for there ringing behind the nut. I have a pad, not sure what it is, it's like felt under the strings and they're dead.

Have you tried pushing down the string behind the nut as a kind of artifical string tree and seeing if that helps?

Was there any clinking noises when you were putting the string on first? I've seen loads of people advocating rubbing a pencil lead into the nut slots, claiming the graphite from the pencil acts as a lubricant helps prevent binding. I've never done it myself (never felt the need), but it might be worth a shot, can't do any harm and even if it doesn't solve them it should lessen any problems with the nut.

I like trying to solve problems like this, helps take my mind off the fact that I have exams in the morning

[abt]

I thought I'd drop in and give you guys an update.

So after swapping nuts, swapping nuts again, adding shims, you name it I was starting to think that maybe the problem was me.

I've yet to cut a new nut from a blank. The whole reason why I went down the path of it being a problem with the nut is I had as I mentioned before I had a similar problem before on the 7th string which was instantly fixed by filling and re-cutting the nut slot.

So, after trying just about everything I can think of I put it away for a few days. At this stage I think it's my playing or maybe I'm just being hyper focused on that sound (around 1634Hz to be exact!).

So for a few days I play a different gitbox. I can hear the sound on this guitar I swear. As an experiment I grab four guitars and start chugging away at the acoustically. I'm now not sure. Can I hear it, I think I can, maybe it is me? I plug them in. Big difference. I'm pretty sure what I hear acoustically has disappeared before my very ears. At this stage I'm swapping a testing guitars both amped and acoustically. The Mayo has yet to be touched.

I grab the Mayo and play it acoustically. It sounds kind of similar to some of the others. Is the sound is a bit louder? Maybe? I swap back and forth. I notice that although there is a kind of harmonic plingy sound to all of them, fundamental is definitely lower on most guitars. I hit the amp and I hear it on the Mayo loud and clear and I know I'm not imagining it. Would someone else hear it I'm not so sure. I was in a studio recently and I convinced the producer of it and it started to bug him as well. I got around it by playing differently.

After swapping between other guitars and the Mayo it dawns on me that I have a Duncan Distortion in this guitar which none of the other have. Maybe it's that? I've not swapped the pups out. I don't know what I'll do if it is that, its sound the best to me of all the pups.

Edited June 7, 2014 by abt

[curtisa]

Possibly. Any pickup will accentuate or attenuate certain frequencies that, if the stars magically align, make a certain harmonic of a particular note stand out as obnoxious to one persons' ears. Is swapping the pickup for another out of the question, even just to prove your theory? Do you have access to a parametric EQ that you could dial in on the exact pitch and notch it down a bit before heading to the amp (hint: any recording software can do this if you use software amp modelling)?

Do you have any example recordings of the effect that we can listen to, preferably with a second recording of the same playing style on a guitar that doesn't exhibit the problem?

[KeithHowell]

Have you tried changing the strings?

My friend and guitar teacher recently had his Telecaster upgraded with a compound radius fretboard. After re-fretting and restringing he also had what could only be described as a "horrible plinky sound" on the B and top E strings. Our first thought was fret buzz but after an hour of adjustment on the bridge we decided it must be the strings as there was still a peculiar ringing on the open strings. He restrung it and all went clear as a bell.

[abt]

Have you tried changing the strings?

My friend and guitar teacher recently had his Telecaster upgraded with a compound radius fretboard. After re-fretting and restringing he also had what could only be described as a "horrible plinky sound" on the B and top E strings. Our first thought was fret buzz but after an hour of adjustment on the bridge we decided it must be the strings as there was still a peculiar ringing on the open strings. He restrung it and all went clear as a bell.

It's not this.

[abt]

Possibly. Any pickup will accentuate or attenuate certain frequencies that, if the stars magically align, make a certain harmonic of a particular note stand out as obnoxious to one persons' ears. Is swapping the pickup for another out of the question, even just to prove your theory? Do you have access to a parametric EQ that you could dial in on the exact pitch and notch it down a bit before heading to the amp (hint: any recording software can do this if you use software amp modelling)?

Do you have any example recordings of the effect that we can listen to, preferably with a second recording of the same playing style on a guitar that doesn't exhibit the problem?

Changing pups is not completely out of the question but I'm reluctant because I'm lazy but really the only pup that I have that will go in that cavity is an EMG 81-7 which has such a distinct sound that it may not be very useful as a comparison.

I'll see if I can come up with a recording. I can make one if I can't find one.

[abt]

I'm pretty sure I can hear it acoustically and in the neck pup, just not as bad.

[seamusoc]

Just this week, I've played two guitars that seem to have the same problem as this- a plinking noise that once I noticed it when I palm-muted an open string, I began to hear it subtly when I was just playing the open note, although then it was kinda drowned out by the string resonating. One guitar was a Squire Tele of a friend of a friend, that had only ever came with one string tree and the G string didn't have a strong enough angle coming off the nut (heehee), the other was a guitar that had its locking nut and string tensioning bar harvested, and most strings had this same problem. On both these guitars, the cause was the angle of the strings behind the nut, and the problem went away if I pushed down on the string behind the nut with my left hand when I was palm-muting with the right. I know that you've tried wrapping a sock around the strings behind the nut but have you completely eliminated the possibility of the string angle being the problem? Especially since you've said that that particular model has a reputation for noise behind the nut. A certain pickup might pick up the frequency of the noise that you're getting more than another would, but that's not to say that the pickup is the problem or that whatever you replace it with would be any better.

I'd suggest bringing the guitar in to your local shop and see if they can find the root of the problem before I'd start swapping out pickups!

[abt]

@seamusoc Yeah, I think I'll take it to someone.

Here is a quick test. You'll probably all think I'm mad, but I can definitely hear it. It's only the open E that's a problem. The second MP3 I gave the offending frequency a boost so you can hear it. It's more obvious to me in earphones.

https://db.tt/JwI5UOSq

https://db.tt/dLW13zVp

[curtisa]

I can hear what you're describing now, on headphones at least. It is subtle, but it does sound a lot like some kind of resonance (sounds like an F# 3 octaves above the fundamental). I can hear a similar resonance quite clearly on the open-A and -D strings too, but not on the open-B (1:08 - 1:14 of your MP3). On the A and D strings it just sounds like a +3 octaves unison. Does the resonance occur when you play an unmuted string, or if you move your picking hand further away from the bridge?

I would have said it sounds a lot like behind-the-nut sympathetic ringing, but if you're quite sure that's not it then I'm at a loss to explain it. My only suggestion is to take your string damper off from behind the nut and pluck the strings behind the nut to see if one of them has the exact same pitch as the resonance(s). Maybe you need to experiment with different damping materials and pressures - sticky tape "connecting" the strings behind the nut (experiment with different types), elastic hair ties, scarves, packing foam of various densities, pencil erasers, wedging materials between or under the strings..? Beyond that you may have to simply take the guitar in to somebody who can offer some assistance in person.

[curtisa]

ARRRGGGH! Now you've got me doing it! Now I know what you're hearing I can hear it on one of my guitars too!

As an experiment I've just taken one of my gtrs and tried what you've just done and can confirm I can make it exhibit the same "ping" too. I initially thought it was behind the nut (this particular instrument is particularly bad for it), but it's definitely not it as I can completely damp all sympathetic ringing from that area.

What I did find was that I could change the intensity of the ping by changing my angle of pick attack more clockwise so the pick was striking the string with a slightly forward rake. The more the pick was striking the string sqaurely or with a slight back-angle the more pronounced the effect was. The other thing I found was that not all picks make the effect as noticeable. The worst was a red Jazz Dunlop III (the smaller teardrop-sized one). The better ones were (ironically) a red XL Jazz Dunlop III (same shape/thickness as the JD Jazz III only bigger in size) and a glossy-finished heavy gauge tortoiseshell Fender pick I had laying around.

[Rynooo]

Made me think of this: