RG350 rebuild

[Prostheta]

Tru-Oil is one of those products which can be used in a variety of ways that can be altered to suit your preference and/or convenience. You definitely need to do something about the lint and dust thing.

The way I have always done it is to apply one fully-wet flood coat and let the wood take up as much as it wants. This takes about an hour, where I top up areas that go dry (end grain for one) and suck up the oil. This is incredibly wasteful, but effective. I wipe off ALL excess and let the coat cure. Remember to lay oily rags out instead of bunching them up. I drop them in a bucket of water before washing them. Ensure that it isn't pooled.

The first coat that I do is to let the wood take what it wants and then let that dry in the wood more than on it. An hour after wiping it clean, I check for any seepage from the pores. That gets buffed with a clean cloth.

Subsequent coats are then working on the surface rather than still in the stage where the wood is robbing you of the oil you're trying to work with. A sealer of sorts. The rest is then a case of applying thin rubbed coats every day and allowing them to cure. Rather than painting it on, I like to add a film twice a day for about a week. Nothing more. If the Tru-Oil is gummy then slow your schedule down to allow it to cure. This is more like the application process of French polishing than anything. It works for me. Take a small rag and soak it in Tru-Oil. Ball it up; it should be around an inch in diameter depending on how you get along with this technique. Place the oily ball onto the centre of a square of lint-free cloth "cover". Draw the corners and edges up and over so you can hold the "rubber" with your thumb and first two fingers. A little oil should leak through the cover and you can rub it over the workpiece to apply a thin film. A drop or two of oil applied directly to the rubbing surface helps keep it lubricated. Again, you're applying a film rather than painting.

This is simply my own technique and draws heavily from methods of applying shellac. For raw wood, I used a different approach which isn't useful to detail here. I don't like applying Tru-Oil with any kind of thickness, just films. Other people are different. Building oils like Tru-Oil can develop a proper film finish unlike basic drying oils which are surface and penetrative only. I just don't like how it can get gummy when used in quantity. Again, that's just me. I haven't fully thought through how to relate my Tru-Oil application methods since I sort of take them for granted. It's a product that you develop a personal approach with since it's pretty flexible.

[badger6]

Here's what I did. I applied the oil liberally all on the front, then sides, then back after it had dried a little and I could flip it over. The first coat mostly soaked in but left a nice matte finish when it was dry. About an 1.5-2 hours later I came back with a second coat equal to the first coat. I noticed that the surface was much more slick than before with the same amount of oil. I switched up between using a dauber and my fingers and found that my fingers worked better, I had better control. So I kept wipeing with the grain, working with the reflection of the surface as not to leave too many streaks. After it started getting tacky and fingers couldn't move easily, I wiped off the surface. I was using old t shirt material that has been washed a few times. However. where I cut the material down, the cut edges release fibers even though it had been washed a couple times. I didn't even think about that. Anyhow. next Monday when I get back in town, I think that I'll knock back the finish a little to see if i can clean up the trash and lint in the finish. Then I'll use your technique for adding the layers. What do you do for streaking? Are you rubbing with the grain or in small circular patterns?

Couple questions though. I've read that the 0000 steel wool is not good to used between coats. Would a piece of old clean denim work better? Also, since I'm having a lint/trash in the finish problem. What would be a good alternative to the rags I'm using? I have read the coffee filters work well.

Edited March 24, 2016 by badger6

[Andyjr1515]

Nowadays I apply tru-oil with a standard domestic microfibres cloth.  Cheap as chips and completely lint free (after an initial shake to get rid of any manufacturing bits left over).  I wear nitrile/latex gloves to keep my hands clean.

Ref dust buggies, I also am nowadays very disciplined:

• I don't use commercial tack rags - ironically they tend to leave bits everywhere, I use a window cleaning microfibres cloth to do a pre coat wipe down
• I take off any pullovers etc and roll my sleeves up
• i avoid leaning over the body as I'm oiling
• i oil in a room that hasn't been used for a few hours (airborne dust is huge in many rooms)
• i creep about before oiling and during then leave the room for an hour, trying to have the minimum air disturbance.

It sounds OCD but it has transformed my dust buggy problem

[Andyjr1515]

Oh....and it looks great, by the way.  Purely personal taste, I'd have missed out the final scorchings, but the overall it'll look great when it's finished whatever 

[Prostheta]

Steel wool is a problem if you are working on raw wood with a significant amount of texture and pore size. Bits can lodge in the pores and gum up with the wool. Nothing a fist-sized neodymium magnet in a ziplock bag won't cure. That and pulling a truss rod through the wall. I digress. I used steel wool to scuff back the first coat after it had laid a little heavy on my Sapele bass and I had to clean it out of the wood in places. That was annoying.

Wiping with the grain or against it probably has little effect unless you're working up a slurry of wood dust and oil to grain fill, packing it in. You're not doing that at this stage.

If you absolutely have to cut the rags, fold the raw edges onto the inside of a rubber so they're not exposed.

When I'm rubbing oil or shellac, I use a mixture of landing/taking off (imagine a plane coming in to land, running along the runway for a bit without stopping and taking off again) or figure-of-8 movements. It's more important for shellac since the alcohol evaporates nearly instantaneously (leaving an evaporating "comet trail") whilst dwelling in one area for any amount of time allows the alcohol to burn through the existing surface. Oil is far more forgiving than that, but it's good practice if you're interested in hand-rubbed finishes. Personally, I just wish that I had more time to do them.

[badger6]

Ok, got 4 coats of tru oil on this thing and noticed a drip by the forearm contour. Can't see it too well but it's there.

Wet sanded it lightly with 400 grit and started with the 5th coat.

 

I'm not sure if it's grain I'm seeing or light streaking in the tru oil. How long before it levels out?

Edited March 31, 2016 by badger6

[Prostheta]

It depends on how you're applying it. A thin rubbed finish can be lightly sanded back after it builds to a point where the oil can take a bit of flatting. The difference here is that any burn-throughs are disastrous unlike raw wood, where it simply means you need to re-apply oil. Perhaps wet sand the surface with something light like 400-600 grit and a block. Lubricate the paper with a little oil and only hit the surface lightly rather than aggressively try and make it flat, otherwise you're guaranteed a burn through. Wipe 'er clean and get back to continuing light application.

I've got to admit; that does look super nice in spite of it being Basswood. Definitely the exception to the rule. Keep working at it with patience and you'll have a stunner. Good work.

[badger6]

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

It depends on how you're applying it. A thin rubbed finish can be lightly sanded back after it builds to a point where the oil can take a bit of flatting. The difference here is that any burn-throughs are disastrous unlike raw wood, where it simply means you need to re-apply oil. Perhaps wet sand the surface with something light like 400-600 grit and a block. Lubricate the paper with a little oil and only hit the surface lightly rather than aggressively try and make it flat, otherwise you're guaranteed a burn through. Wipe 'er clean and get back to continuing light application.

I've got to admit; that does look super nice in spite of it being Basswood. Definitely the exception to the rule. Keep working at it with patience and you'll have a stunner. Good work.

Thanks Prostheta. Been kind of busy and only got one more coat on it since my last post. I was thinking about your post and was wondering if it would be better to wait until I get 9-10 coats (I'm at 6 now) until I do the wet sanding with some 400 grit and a little true oil. Is what you're talking about the slurry method that I've read about while researching?

Anyhow, I have to leave town again next Thursday, I'm going to try to get another 4-5 coats on by then. What would be the total number of coats you would do? Also, what would be your opinion on a matte vs gloss final finish?

[Prostheta]

The slurry method is for raw wood finishing. It's initial wet sanding with oil onto the wood which creates a mixture of oil and fine dust that fills up the pores and grain lines. It won't work here.

Personally I think a satin finish is more in keeping with the style of finish you're working towards. Keep adding films and don't get tempted to try laying on large layers. Leave her to set up whilst you do what you have to do, then come back and consider the wet sanding I think. Hard to say since I can't gauge the thickness! Once its bodied well and can take a light sanding to knock a few of the highest areas down a little, you're on the home straight.

Bear in mind that this is my own personal approach to Tru-Oil. The nature of the product lends itself to a variety of different techniques and approaches. Some people even spray the stuff! It's super forgiving. The priority is not to do anything that will burn right through all of the oil, such as an aggressive sanding or hitting a corner too hard. It'd be useful to have a second or third opinion on applying Tru-Oil over a dye or stained finish to give you a wider range of options to choose from.

[badger6]

Ok, I'm up to 10 coats. I'm gonna let it set up until I get back in town Monday. I'm thinking I'm gonna do a light wet sand to level out the finish. Then I'm going to do 2-3 very light finish coats, see how it looks and go from there. What grit paper would you guys use on the light wet sand? Would you just hit it with one grit or would you go through 2-3 progressively finer grits before the last few coats? 

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by badger6

[Prostheta]

I'd start at 400 grit. That's just me though. The aim is just to knock the highest points, not bring it down to the lowest ones. A wet oil-lubricated scuff and back to work. A good oil finish is laborious and inconvenient. 

[badger6]

Wet sanded it with 600 grit and the oil and got another 3 coats on since my last post, so I'm at 13 coats. I'm not sure if I'm going to get all of the grain line out. But I might as well just keep on applying coats until the 8 ounce bottle runs out. I would guess that would be about 18-20 coats total. 

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by badger6

[ScottR]

The pores will fill if you keep at it; either way it is looking fine.

SR

[Prostheta]

It might be because thin film applications mirror the coat underneath rather than smoothing it out. By this point a bit of flatting might be in order?

[badger6]

I think I'll get to 15-16 coats and then maybe lightly hit it with the 600 grit on a block, Then continue with the rest of the bottle. 

I have to start thinking about the headstock logo also. I need to save enough oil to cover it with. I've seen some Ibanez headstock logos on ebay like this one . However, from the installation picture, those look more like vinyl rub on stickers and are probably kind of thick to bury in tru oil. Any suggestions on where to find an Ibanez waterslide decal or how to bury one of those thicker vinyl decals on the headstock?

Edited April 17, 2016 by badger6

[badger6]

Update time. Been kind of busy, but I've managed to hit the body with a block sander with 600 grit after the 15th coat. Now I'm up to 18 coats. I'll still have some grain showing at 20 coats. I'll post pics when I get to 20 coats and see if you guys think that I should keep going. 

I also ordered a Pickguard and a replacement Ibanez headstock logo. After a couple hours searching the net, I couldn't find an Ibanez waterslide decal. So I just ordered a self stick vinyl decal. Hopefully it isn't too thick and I can somehow bury it in the finish. Only thing left to order is an ESP arming adjuster or Goldo Black Box since I'm going to use the original shitty TRS Floyd copy for now. Also gonna need a couple new humbuckers. Anyone got any recommendations for some decent sounding cheap pickups for a 80's type rock and hard rock type tone?

[ScottR]

I've heard great things about Iron Gear pups.

http://www.irongear.co.uk/

SR

[Prostheta]

They're damn affordable. I'd love to put a set of the teSla sharks through their paces on a future build. If they stack up as they say they do (along with their curiously-slanted gushing customer comments) then they're onto a real winner. So far the biggest advantage I can see is pricing. Can't tell how they are in the real world until you get your real world hands on them.

[bone3552]

I put the Dirty Torque + Blues Engine combination into a frankenRG I did a while back. It was a mahogany RG350 body if I remember and the combo worked very well with a hardtail bridge. Very 80s with the lower output when compared to some of the hot humbuckers - not dissimilar to my PAF Pro loaded Ibanez JEM though the bridge is a bit harsher.

I had coil taps in that one too and the single coils were agreeable as well.

Hope that helps!

Edited April 27, 2016 by bone3552

[ScottR]

PaulieMac always had great things to say about them......and that goes a long way with me.

SR

[badger6]

5 hours ago, bone3552 said:

I put the Dirty Torque + Blues Engine combination into a frankenRG I did a while back. It was a mahogany RG350 body if I remember and the combo worked very well with a hardtail bridge. Very 80s with the lower output when compared to some of the hot humbuckers - not dissimilar to my PAF Pro loaded Ibanez JEM though the bridge is a bit harsher.

I had coil taps in that one too and the single coils were agreeable as well.

Hope that helps!

Looks like I'll go with Dirty Torque/Blues Engine or Hot Slag/Rolling mill combos depending on how much I want to spend. Those two combos look like the closest to a Duncan JB/59 set.  Look pretty good.for the money, they are around the same price as Guitar Fetish models. I read in a couple random places yesterday that the Iron Gear/Guitar Fetish/Dragonfire/Guitarhead pickups were all made by Artec. Thanks guys for the advice

[badger6]

So what you guys think?  Black open coils or Zebra open coils? The color pickguard I ordered is called "smoke mirror", so I'm not sure if it will be more brown or more gray. But the mockup should be close enough.

 

[ScottR]

I vote black.

SR

[Prostheta]

My hope is that they're better than the Artec, Guitar Fetish, et al. equivalents. Price doesn't always correlate to quality or a lack thereof, however it would be remiss not to consider it a factor. Like I say; I'd love to be proven wrong by road testing a set, and being an honest advocate if so. I'm a little hesitant since they seem to rely on pushing customer testimonials heavily. I suspect that a light sticker means lower expectations to be exceeded....?

[badger6]

15 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

My hope is that they're better than the Artec, Guitar Fetish, et al. equivalents. Price doesn't always correlate to quality or a lack thereof, however it would be remiss not to consider it a factor. Like I say; I'd love to be proven wrong by road testing a set, and being an honest advocate if so. I'm a little hesitant since they seem to rely on pushing customer testimonials heavily. I suspect that a light sticker means lower expectations to be exceeded....?

I'm sure they'll be fine. They have to be better than the stock Ibz pickups, haha. So do you like the black or zebra Prostheta?