Prostheta Posted May 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 Cleaned up and given a quick wipe of shellac. Just curious to see how it would look. I'm still tempted to go for the full 5-ply instead of 3-ply, however I'm certainly thinking that simpler is more graceful rather than cramming in the bling. That's just not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMpleONe89 Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 I think that looks great as it is.. Maybe 5 ply is over kill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 It's only very small on the workpiece though; the outer binding is 1,5mm x 5mm (about 1/16th x 3/16th) and the two inner plies are 0,3mm x 3mm each. I'm not going to rush right into getting it bound up so I can see how I feel about that weight of binding. Increasing the thickness of the two inner plies might give it a more appropriate visual weight. Currently it is very light and delicate, so can be easily lost visually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 The summer shutdown at the place where I do most of my larger-scale work has slowed this one down considerably. I have time available to go in this week however so I re-thicknessed the laminates and brought them back home to glue up.... Now, I decided to double up the Walnut pinstripes for more weight. This makes the whole thing a 9-piece laminate with 8 surfaces to apply glue onto before clamping up. Because I use Titebond I (it's the best for the job, this is not a debate) the open time means I have to work very swiftly. I might try some Titebond Extend in the future however..... This means doing a full dry fit, having all the clamps to hand, and knowing your exact procedure from beginning to end. Dry fit with clamping cauls: The procedure is to take one laminate from the back of the stack, "push" it over to reveal the glueing face and run a thick beading of Titebond over the face.... Spread it with a rubber squeegee until it forms a consistent wetted surface and glue film: Rinsed and repeated until everything was stacked. By this point it was an effort to push laminates into position, but not a chore. This is where I am unhappy with the glueup. I think I need more clamps, and I used 16....12 heavy duty and 4 lighter duty. This might have left me short of the ideal clamping pressure, but we'll see tomorrow when I unclamp and joint up this blank. It's possible that the outer laminates need replacing, however I can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 I should have just glued these up on a rack of beam clamps. Those are the big boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Yeah. Looks like you used nice thick cauls though, That will help. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Yeah, I'm thinking that I might have undershot the mark on clamping pressure. The big ones can develop about 1000lbs at full bore and I needed around 16,800lbs across this size. I'll see how it comes out of the wash tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Looks like some important progress, @Prostheta I use Titebond Extend for all of these kinds of job. To me, in all respects other than the workability time, it seems identical to standard Titebond. But the benefit of that extra working time is, again for me, invaluable. On something like a neck laminate with standard titebond, I feel that the glue at the end I started at is often already getting draggy by the time I'm trying to squeegee it. Also, one small delay (eg a short reposition of the clamping set up) and I often find myself in difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 The positioning time is quite short if you only apply glue onto one of a pair of surfaces. Ideally both need to be wetted with glue otherwise you're relying on clamping pressure to transfer from the wet surface to the dry one. In the real world this is rarely a problem, however it is a common form of glue joint failure.... Yes, Titebond-I is fairly thick as it stands. If it weren't for the fact that it adds more water I would either spritz the other face or apply glue to both. By that point, hydrostatic pressure causes laminates to slip and fly around the place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Worst comes to the worst, I'll joint off the outer laminates and glue on another pair tomorrow using the big boy's clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 If your gluing surfaces have been prepped nice and flat, and I'd be totally shocked if they weren't, I'll bet those joints look fine. I've been a lifelong fan of using as much clamping force as I can physically muster, but I must say I've been impressed by some of the joints I've gotten on the mando, using things like clothes pins, rubber bands, go bars, violin clamps and gently squeezed C-clamps. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 Birch is pedantic stuff. Do anything to it and suddenly it's like the Lament Configuration from Hellraiser. All my laminates were flat this morning and I took 1,2mm off each of them. It's like summoning a fate demon. Once Birch has settled it's stable as anything. Complaining and bitching during work is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 8, 2016 Report Share Posted June 8, 2016 The laminates don't have to like each other, they just have to stand next to each other in nice even lines and keep their hands to themselves. My wife's a preschool teacher. I'm pretty sure I got that from her. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 At least it isn't drooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Or loading up its big boy pants.... SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yeah, I still happy with the outer laminates so I jointed them off. The way I do this with tapers involved is to set the cut depth a mm or two and cut the thick end until somewhere in the middle, I then flip the piece and let it ride on the edges of these so it eventually cuts itself flat. Anyway. Clamps set up and good to go with a pair of thick cauls. Bead 'er up. Squeegee smooth. I quickly flipped the lot up, applied a small clamp over the thick end (since they're tapered, pressure will try and squidge the central laminate out), plus a couple of clamps to keep it all aligned. I love these clamps. Really awesome power. I'm sure that they develop about 1500lbs or so, and with a cheater bar you might get a few hundred more! I used Titebond I....that's just an old Titebond-III bottle I re-used since my gallon bottle is a bit clumsy.... End of the day, all cleaned up and thicknessed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 http://www.piher.com/en/bar-clamps/19-bar-clamp-100-bar100x50-mm.html Turns out they can put out 15000N. THAT'S OVER 3300LBS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'd best remind myself to grab some steel wool. I plan on ebonising the Walnut pins using ferric acetate. Takes about a week to make up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Prostheta said: http://www.piher.com/en/bar-clamps/19-bar-clamp-100-bar100x50-mm.html Turns out they can put out 15000N. THAT'S OVER 3300LBS. Damnnnnnn, clamp porn! Maybe the first I've ever seen. Those are definitely the studs of the clamp world. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Four of those, shortened for body blanks would be ideal for the enthusiast luthier with deeper pockets. I bet that if you're handy with a welder you could easily make those up. The one closest to the edge has a nasty tendency to fall off the table. The stupid response is to try and catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 And ain't it crazy how automatic that response is. It took several object lessons for me to stop trying to catch carving tools when I knock them off the table. And don't they always land with the cutting edge hitting the concrete. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 You've got it. People think I'm weird when I'm working because I flip tools and workpieces around with my hands, manipulating them. I work fast. When I drop things, they move very quickly also....even worse to go chasing after them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMpleONe89 Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 That looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Lovely clean joins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Have you forgotten what they look like Andy? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.