epic necks?

[mistermikev]

one of my fav basses is an 88?ish ibanez sr800 beautiful ash body and headstock overlay but it's nothing blow your mind.  The neck on it feels like a toothpick and it needs constant adjustment (despite being an early 3 piece lam) but it is like nothing else I've ever tried.  Seriously you play this and instantly know why soundgear dominated in the 80's/90's.  The new ones are not even close and I suspect the specs will bear that out... (newer soundgears are 1.5" - 1 7/16" nut width, 7/8" thickness @ 1 )

so for curiosity sake, and for hopes of someday building a more stable version of this neck... I took measurements of the profile and thought I would share it.

yup, incredibly thin.  My measurements were ending at the fretboard itself so there is likely 1/32 to 1/16 more there... but I'm measuring 23/32 deep and only 1 3/8 inches wide at the 1.  not much more depth at the 12 and only 1 5/8.  so... I believe that's about typical nut width for a jazz bass but thinner profile. 

 

so... if you had to build this neck knowing that quarter sawn maple wasn't going to be ridgid enough... what do you think?  multi (5+)piece lam enough?  wenge/maple?  need graphite stiffeners?

also am curious... have any profiles (guitar OR bass) that really worked for you?

[Bizman62]

7 hours ago, mistermikev said:

so... if you had to build this neck knowing that quarter sawn maple wasn't going to be ridgid enough... what do you think?  multi (5+)piece lam enough?  wenge/maple?  need graphite stiffeners?

The first word that popped on my mind was carbon fibre.

Multi lam by itself might also work as each layer adds to stiffness. Carefully choosing the individual laminates would be required no matter the species. Elastic Modulus and Modulus of Rupture are the key elements and they should be measured for the wood used instead of just looking the charts.

[mistermikev]

I understand that carbon fibre necks tend to not have a truss.  I suppose a truss rod probably wouldn't do much in a neck like that.  The other issue is I like really low action... I suspect this sr800 would be fine as is if I lifted the action but then I really wouldn't like it.  make it out of ebony and it'd probably be too heavy. 

I imagine there is a reason ibanez stopped making necks of that shape/size.  much like the newer jems... probably not ideal for mass mfg.  a certain percentage is just going to have problems. 

 

[Bizman62]

8 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I understand that carbon fibre necks tend to not have a truss.  I suppose a truss rod probably wouldn't do much in a neck like that.

I know for sure that Crimson guitars use both, it's been both said in the Q&A and shown in their build videos. According to them there's no issue. Truss rods are much tougher than carbon fibre rods. Crimson used them also in their fret leveling files at some point and bending a file epoxied on a thick block of high quality tonewood (they use offcuts) sure requires some force!

[mistermikev]

Just now, Bizman62 said:

I know for sure that Crimson guitars use both, it's been both said in the Q&A and shown in their build videos. According to them there's no issue. Truss rods are much tougher than carbon fibre rods. Crimson used them also in their fret leveling files at some point and bending a file epoxied on a thick block of high quality tonewood (they use offcuts) sure requires some force!

I was referring to an entirely carbon fibre neck, but it sounds like you are talking about rods?

 

[Bizman62]

Yes, a multi laminate hardwood neck with a truss rod routed in the middle and some carbon fibre strips on either side. Strips seems to be the right word for the square ones. Rods are apparently round.

[mistermikev]

"I understand that carbon fibre necks..." 

"I know for sure that Crimson guitars use both"

roger that... feel free to comment on things I DON"T say!    Perhaps you are having your own conversation over there!

yeah, no, carbon fiber rods might be a good idea too.  also carbon fibre is not like bret favre.

"Rods are apparently round. "

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Truss_Rods/Carbon_fiber/Carbon_Fiber_Neck_Rods.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2020-04-gp&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy62k6JDH6AIVF8RkCh37wAP7EAQYASABEgKq7fD_BwE

stew mac, bitterroot, and the entire guitar community does not agree with you, but for the record I do... rods are round. 

 

[Bizman62]

Young man, you can't expect me to fully understand your strange youth lingo. Why can't you speak my language?

Re rods and strips, Crimson talk about rods but when I googled for them all were round. On the site of one vendor I noticed that they sell strips as well and they were square or rather rectangular.

"feel free to comment on things I DON"T say!" works both ways: Where in my first comment did I say "neck"? In all fairness, though, I didn't say "reinforcement" either.

All this said all this misunderstanding adds to our post count, making us more influential!

[MiKro]

I use carbon fiber strips in my necks. 6 string guitars get a pair of 1/8" x 5/16" strips. Bass necks get 3/16" x 3/8" strips.

[mistermikev]

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Young man, you can't expect me to fully understand your strange youth lingo. Why can't you speak my language?

Re rods and strips, Crimson talk about rods but when I googled for them all were round. On the site of one vendor I noticed that they sell strips as well and they were square or rather rectangular.

"feel free to comment on things I DON"T say!" works both ways: Where in my first comment did I say "neck"? In all fairness, though, I didn't say "reinforcement" either.

All this said all this misunderstanding adds to our post count, making us more influential!

only way to solve this is a death match... via slapping.  where/when?

[Bizman62]

I'll have to find a dead trout first.

[mistermikev]

24 minutes ago, MiKro said:

I use carbon fiber strips in my necks. 6 string guitars get a pair of 1/8" x 5/16" strips. Bass necks get 3/16" x 3/8" strips.

I noticed you were careful to say strips... see what you've done bizman!

(thanks for the reply).

 

have never done graphite RODS in a guitar... might have to try this at some point.  My other thoughts were to build a neck with very similar specs... but go slightly wider, do a smaller radius, and use low fretwire.

[mistermikev]

Just now, Bizman62 said:

I'll have to find a dead trout first.

you millenials - always worried about pita.  why not a live trout eh?

[MiKro]

26 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

I noticed you were careful to say strips... >snip<

 

That is what I order. They are called strips when I order them, not rods, those are a different part and round.

There are different types as well depending on the layup type for the fiber. some are better than others. need to look at uni-lateral layup.

 

[mistermikev]

18 minutes ago, MiKro said:

That is what I order. They are called strips when I order them, not rods, those are a different part and round.

There are different types as well depending on the layup type for the fiber. some are better than others. need to look at uni-lateral layup.

 

right on... will have to remember that.  I'm guessing that has to do with the direction of the fiber?

 

[Bizman62]

47 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

why not a live trout eh?

Can you imagine how difficult it would be to send a live trout to Texas and keep it alive during the travel? Adding animal cruelty to my list of sins isn't on my agenda. A dead trout won't suffer and if the package is well sealed the courier wouldn't either.

Thanks for calling me a millennial, makes me feel like I was your age!

[MiKro]

35 minutes ago, mistermikev said:

right on... will have to remember that.  I'm guessing that has to do with the direction of the fiber?

 

Yes the direction of the fiber.

[mistermikev]

51 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Can you imagine how difficult it would be to send a live trout to Texas and keep it alive during the travel? Adding animal cruelty to my list of sins isn't on my agenda. A dead trout won't suffer and if the package is well sealed the courier wouldn't either.

Thanks for calling me a millennial, makes me feel like I was your age!

used to have a saltwater coral tank... so oddly I know exactly how hard it is to send a live fish across the pond!  not something as big as a trout tho... perhaps a baby trout.

[mistermikev]

28 minutes ago, MiKro said:

Yes the direction of the fiber.

right on.  I'm assuming you want it running the length of the neck then, and preferably standing as opposed to lying down?  sm as you'd want w wood?

[mistermikev]

53 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

Can you imagine how difficult it would be to send a live trout to Texas and keep it alive during the travel? Adding animal cruelty to my list of sins isn't on my agenda. A dead trout won't suffer and if the package is well sealed the courier wouldn't either.

Thanks for calling me a millennial, makes me feel like I was your age!

millennial... that was me being funny.  I have seen pictures so have proof you aren't!  also I'm 46... you can't be much older if at all.

[mistermikev]

so much of my brilliant humor is wasted online.  you'll have to trust me... I'm funny as f.

[Bizman62]

Funny indeed, the only issue being whether you're crying or smiling behind the clown mask... As with all of us.

There's a reason for the digits in my nick and as I don't change name every year it's not my age.

[mistermikev]

jeebus god man... wouldn't have guessed you are that old (offense meant)!  you are in pretty good shape mentally and physically for your age... but I'll still fish slap fight you.

[mistermikev]

also lets see how many posts we can go before some lame ass posts about ot in here!  haha!  super epic mega derail!  love it.

[Bizman62]

An ad came today, there's salmon fillets on sale starting tomorrow. They should be pretty much boneless so your face won't get scratched.

Looking through the right type of glasses we all have our strenghts. You can play, I can look good on stage when the lights are low.