RonMay Posted September 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) Upon further inspection, I found that the brace doesn't affect the crack at all. I sort of misjudged the location of the brace in relation to the crack. I was looking at the wrong brace. The loose brace is about 8" from the bottom and the second brace after the sound hole, but on the bottom. So, I went ahead and fixed it. It turned out pretty good. I can't feel it at all. I can still see it but I know where to look. Next on the grocery list of things to do will be the brace on the back. Thanks to the good advise from @Bizman62, I know how to try to do this. Ron Edited September 12, 2020 by RonMay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted September 13, 2020 Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 23 hours ago, RonMay said: I can still see it but I know where to look. I don't know where to look! Very well done! Let's hope the brace works out as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2020 Thank you @Bizman62 . Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 While I was waiting word on a possible bridge replacement, I decided to work on the back of the guitar to help make it look better. I used 400 grit sandpaper and a tiny bit of water, to help the sandpaper from loading up with sanding dust, and went over the whole back, then I applied some chrome polish to it in quarter sections then hand buffed it to a shine using a shop towel. It's no where near where I want it to be, but it's looking a lot better. There is a shine to it but the camera would not let me shoot it because of the glare off of the surface, so I had to get the sun behind me. I also worked some on the front a little bit. I didn't polish it because it has a lot more sanding to do. I also sanded the pick guard area to remove the glue residue that was left behind when it came off. I just heard from the guy in Athens Georgia who said he might have an original Regal bridge that possibly be an exact match, foot print dimensions and all, of the one I need to replace. It's at a reasonable price too. Looking for a pin less bridge like the original has been like hunting for a unicorn. For what ever reason, it appears that no one makes pin less bridge anymore. Ron 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 2 hours ago, RonMay said: Looking for a pin less bridge like the original has been like hunting for a unicorn. For what ever reason, it appears that no one makes pin less bridge anymore. Here's one, called Top Load: https://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_acoustic.htm Some instructions for making one: https://customguitars.com/making-a-pinless-guitar-bridge/ https://www.jimmyegypt.com/photo-gallery/guitar-repairs-portfolio/making-an-elegant-pinless-bridge-in-ebony/ While searching I found a video about changing a pin less one to a pinned one. While there was some good information the explanation for the original bridge having become loose because of being top loaded and not secured with bolts was utterly wrong! Even on the video it was obvious that the bridge had been at least partially glued over lacquer instead of bare wood. Being proper RSW disciples we know better, don't we? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Allparts there in the US sell one. Any good as a blank to reshape in the style of the original? https://www.allparts.com/products/gb-2866-acoustic-top-loading-bridge?_pos=1&_sid=5c4d1f993&_ss=r 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 This restoration is coming on very nicely, by the way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Bizman62 said: Here's one, called Top Load: https://www.guitarpartsresource.com/gbridge_acoustic.htm Some instructions for making one: https://customguitars.com/making-a-pinless-guitar-bridge/ https://www.jimmyegypt.com/photo-gallery/guitar-repairs-portfolio/making-an-elegant-pinless-bridge-in-ebony/ While searching I found a video about changing a pin less one to a pinned one. While there was some good information the explanation for the original bridge having become loose because of being top loaded and not secured with bolts was utterly wrong! Even on the video it was obvious that the bridge had been at least partially glued over lacquer instead of bare wood. Being proper RSW disciples we know better, don't we? You are absolutely right about that @Bizman62. And that is the case with this one as well. The edge all around the bridge was at least blued to about 1/8" of lacquer. I believe that if can clean it like he does and make sure Titebond is covering the entire footprint top and bottom, it should not come off again. Thanks for the links. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Allparts there in the US sell one. Any good as a blank to reshape in the style of the original? https://www.allparts.com/products/gb-2866-acoustic-top-loading-bridge?_pos=1&_sid=5c4d1f993&_ss=r Thank you for the link @Andyjr1515. This looks exactly like the one RSW had to replace because the strings broke off the whole top of the part directly above where the strings push through in the back and pull out in the front of the string location. It was on an Ovation guitar. He said it was a totally terrible design to have such thinness on the top of the part of the bridge that has the most stress. But if worse comes to worse it might be a viable option. He blamed it on the large relief openings where the strings emerge right before the saddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: This restoration is coming on very nicely, by the way Thank you @Andyjr1515. :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 Today I polished the sides and sound board a little and my hands and arms are kinda tired. I also sanded the place where the pick guard was so now it's ready to receive the guard. I'm going to look online for some of that sticky peel off tape stuff to apply the guard. I don't want to CA glue it. The ones you buy have that peel off sticky stuff and that's what I'm looking for. They didn't locate the guard very centered to the sound hole from the factory so now I have a dilemma. Do I locate it where the old one was or center it where its supposed to be and leave a ghost shadow of where it used to be showing. ??? I'm kinda funny about stuff like that. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, RonMay said: Do I locate it where the old one was or center it where its supposed to be and leave a ghost shadow of where it used to be showing. ??? I'm kinda funny about stuff like that. I'd say put it where it was. It's part of the history and the pale wood shining would look much more out of place than the original misplacement. Heck, I might even believe that the scratchplate has been beaten with a pick to that location! Either forced it to slide or hammered narrower... Also notice that if you move the scratchplate you'd have to deal with the pretty deep scratches right next to it. 29 minutes ago, RonMay said: I'm going to look online for some of that sticky peel off tape stuff to apply the guard. I've got some 3M 2" wide double sided tape with a thin clear film from Lidl. That might be ideal for your need. Unfortunately there's no product code on the roll but something similar from their product range should be easy enough to find. It might be similar to the double sided tape sold in small 1/4" wide rolls sold in grocery stores although I believe it's stronger. Anyhow, don't use "carpet tape" with a vowen middle layer as it would creep. For obvious reasons the thick foam pads are also out of question as is the thick tape used for attaching car model plates. Spray adhesive on the other hand might work if the plate isn't warped. And if you can't find anything else, you can use masking tape and super glue to create a thin double sided adhesive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 @Bizman62, I think you're right about the location. The lighter shadow would certainly drive me nuts. And it was bought like that, played like that so your 2 for 2 on reasons to keep it were it is. I'm sure I can find some with an online search. That shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for your suggestions and advise. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted September 20, 2020 Report Share Posted September 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, RonMay said: I'm sure I can find some with an online search. That shouldn't be a problem Guess you're right. I recall Ben Crowe from Crimson Guitars, Britain, mentioning a few times that in the US the availability of good quality double sided tape is much better than here in Europe. I wonder if "industrial" products are available for consumers in small enough retail quantities over there. That reminds me when I wanted to get some 10 mm thick 3M adhesive bumpons and called 3M Finland. They told me that they only sell through resellers. Fair enough, I went to the local rubber and plastic special shop. I had to buy the entire box of 1000! And I occasionally need a pair for a customer's laptop to improve airflow from below. Fortunately their glue doesn't seem to dry in storage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 On 9/20/2020 at 12:02 AM, RonMay said: There is a shine to it but the camera would not let me shoot it because of the glare off of the surface, I don't think there is anything harder to shoot than a shiny guitar. I always get reflections of trees on mine. One option for your pickguard is to make it slightly oversize so you can center it around the sound hole and cover the lighter wood both. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 Yeah, that's what I got too.... trees. I would like to keep the old guard. I don't remember it bothering me before, but then I wasn't looking for flaws to fix. 51 minutes ago, ScottR said: I don't think there is anything harder to shoot than a shiny guitar. I always get reflections of trees on mine. One option for your pickguard is to make it slightly oversize so you can center it around the sound hole and cover the lighter wood both. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 Today I'm removing the bridge. I'll use a small hot iron which I will hold on top along with a removal tool sort of under it to heat both up around the same time. I made the removal tool out of a putty knife. I narrowed for the forward part of the knife and rounded the end with a fairly sharp edge. I will use the iron as it's heating up the bridge to also heat the knife. I am using the iron to heat up the bridge so that the glue under it will soften and using the knife slowly work it side to side and forward and back and just move it around to help the softer glue release it's hold on the bridge. The cardboard is to protect the finish around the bridge Then I work the knife to help loosen the glue and slowly one little part at a time help the bridge separate from the soundboard. The removed bridge. The black is a part where the bridge used to be is part of the removed bridge, for what ever reason, would not let go when the rest of it did. I'm removing what's left of the bridge from the sound board, but I've gone about as far as I can go until I know what the shape and size of the replacement bridge will be. All in all it went pretty well. I wish it came off cleaner but it is what it is. It doesn't happen this way in the all the block buster movies though. Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted September 30, 2020 Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 Well done. It's a scary business removing a bridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted September 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2020 You're right about that. This is the first and probably only time I will do this. I was as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Thank you. Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 1, 2020 Report Share Posted October 1, 2020 11 hours ago, RonMay said: I wish it came off cleaner but it is what it is. T0 me it looks perfect! You haven't lost the actual top wood at all. It's better to have to scrape off some of the remains of the broken bridge than having to apply patches to fix a major gap on the top. You certainly have studied the RSW videos well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted October 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2020 Bizman62, he is a great teacher. There are many videos of how to fix guitars, but Jerry Rosa tells you why as well as how. Thank you. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted October 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) I was able to piece the bridge together so I could trace it on some paper, scan it and be able to send that PDF file to someone maybe to make it. Seeing how thin it is between the hole part and the saddle part it's a wonder it lasted the couple of decades it did before it gave way. Bridge Diagram for actual size .pdf Edited October 2, 2020 by RonMay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 Does anyone know of a person or place that can make a bridge like this? I'm wanting to change to pinned in stead of pinless. Thanks Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizman62 Posted October 4, 2020 Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 2 hours ago, RonMay said: Does anyone know of a person or place that can make a bridge like this? Jerry Rosa... And he could most likely also tell if the change is a viable option. Can't you find anything suitable from the links you got earlier on this page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMay Posted October 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2020 When I first contacted him about a couple of months ago, he said, or his office person, said that he's not taking any new work because of the huge back log of customers. Thanks @Bizman62, for the reminder of that link. When I looked the "Top Load Rosewood" bridge looked promising, but I was not sure about going with top load or pin holes. I am thinking about converting the original style of top load through bridge to a pinned one. At that time though there were a lot of things to fix before I got to that point. As it is I think the GB-2866-0R0 would work very close for my application. It looks like an ovation bridge design. I have been looking for a pinned one with those same dimensions and there is one the GB-J29-R that might work. Maybe I should order both to give some comparison and send the one that works least back. I saw one on an RSW video on an Ovation ,that had broken right at the spot where the thickness of the entering string hole and the exit at the saddle side just broke out. He said something about that being a poor design and probably was not enough wall thickness with that much string stress pull to withstand. Thank you for reminding me of this link. I had bookmarked it but had overlooked it until now. Again, thank you. Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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