daveq Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I plugged in my 362 today - nice!! I need to go through my EQ settings now and adjust everything to compensate for the difference in sound. I've been waiting a long time to get one. I've had a BBE feature on my car stereo for a while and it always made me want to get one for my guitar. They aren't expensive but I just never got around to snagging one. I saw one on Ebay and it showed up today. So if anyone here uses one, I'd like to know where you place yours and what settings you prefer. I think the best place to put it is at the power amp input (end of effects loop), right? I know the settings are just personal preference but I'm just interested to see what someone else uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 5, 2004 Report Share Posted February 5, 2004 I have the 482i just before my power amp. I have both the Lo Contour and Process knobs at 4. The goal was to get the added tightness without too much effect on EQ. I'm a bit ambivalent about its effectiveness in an instrument rig though and think it might be more effective for recording purposes. Turning up the knobs above 5 gives more of a scooped sound that might interest someone like Wes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckguitarist Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I've been wondering this for a while...what exactly do these do?... p.s. You're talking about the Sonic Maximizers Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I'm a bit ambivalent about its effectiveness in an instrument rig though and think it might be more effective for recording purposes I don't follow what you mean. Whether it be on my car stereo or on my guitar amp, the BBE process really makes a big difference in the sound quality. My settings are just past mid point on both. p.s. You're talking about the Sonic Maximizers Right? Yup. They adjust the phase relationship between high and low frequencies to "clarify" (I don't know how to describe it) the sound. BBE's web site explains it better and has some sound bytes. Since the 362 is only about $100 (~$50 on ebay), it's well worth the investment in my opinion. The typical description is "it's like taking a blanket off your amp" and that really is a pretty good description of how it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 By having your settings a bit past midpoint (around 6), your lows and highs are boosted so when you kick in the effect it obviously sounds enhanced in an A-B comparison with the original sound. It makes me wonder if I couldn't get comparable results with just a good EQ. I think (though I'm only speculating) that it might make more sense to use it for recording or have it in the P.A. to process the final guitar sound rather than have its processed sound modified (muddied) by a guitar speaker. But compared to a good EQ, it's inexpensive, uses only 1 rack space, and a simple way to enhance your sound so I like it. But I have to be honest and say that I personally don't consider it indispensable for my rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 Loved my 442 when I had a stereo rack, those little processors are well worth the money in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 I've never been able to come close with an EQ but I guess it's all in what your ears like. Brain mentioned an interesting point - I have a stereo amp and effects loop. I'm using the left output into channel A and the right into channel B of the BBE. The outputs of the BBE are then sent to the left and right power amp inputs. I tried running everything in mono just to see if it still improved the sound and it certainly sounded that way to me. The description for the 362 says "ganged stereo operation". What does this mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 6, 2004 Report Share Posted February 6, 2004 The description for the 362 says "ganged stereo operation". What does this mean? Ganged usually means two pots on the same shaft meaning that both left and right are adjusted by the same knob as opposed to the 482 which has separate knobs for left and right. But the 2 channels are still processed independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 I use my 422 as the last link in the chain before my power amp for my bass rig. The effect is quite obvious with a bass, and it's not something that I got out of my Furman Parametric or a 1/3 octave graphic. I'm not sure how it works, but I suspect that there's some kind of frequency-dependent phase shift going on to compensate for the speaker's time lag dealing with the lower frequencies. It adds the clarity I'm looking for, and I only notice it if somebody happens to hit the bypass switch. I don't use it for recording, but I run direct, so there's nowhere to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 9, 2004 Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 This interesting article explains how the BBE and other similar units work: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_artic...7/exciters.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2004 Devices that affect phase shift trade on the fact that, in real life, high-frequency sounds travel slightly faster than low-frequency sounds, so the further you are from a sound source, the more the high frequencies lag behind. Delaying the bass and mid-range to compensate for this effect makes sounds seem nearer and more immediate. I'm having a bit of trouble understanding this one. If high freq. sounds travel faster, then why would they lag behind as you are further from the source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 My theory on the BBE is just a dab will do ya. You can really go overboard with it if your not careful and totally ruin your sound. I use the BBE just before Waves L1 ultramaximizer plug-in when mixing down. I have the software version of it and it does a great job of adding sparkle to the mix. I don't think I'd want it on as an effect for guitar, but that's just me. Also I think he meant delaying the high frequencies I hope.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Like most effects, you certainly can go too far with it. I dial it to the point where I can hear it working and then go a bit further. I've experimented wth extreme settings and found that they are intersting for a while but get old pretty quick. I've settled on about 1 - 2 o'clock on both contour and process. I wouldn't ever want to be without it - when I bypass it my amp sounds like it's under a pile of laundry. It's probably the last unit that I would get rid of if I had to - well worth the money in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 Devices that affect phase shift trade on the fact that, in real life, high-frequency sounds travel slightly faster than low-frequency sounds, so the further you are from a sound source, the more the high frequencies lag behind. Delaying the bass and mid-range to compensate for this effect makes sounds seem nearer and more immediate. I'm having a bit of trouble understanding this one. If high freq. sounds travel faster, then why would they lag behind as you are further from the source? I think that should have been "high-frequency sounds travel slightly slower than low-frequency sounds". That's why the BBE delays the mids and even more the lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I wouldn't ever want to be without it - when I bypass it my amp sounds like it's under a pile of laundry. It's probably the last unit that I would get rid of if I had to - well worth the money in my opinion. Have you tried the BBE in the context of a band yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 I have not and probably won't for quite a while. I have read that it does help separate the guitar from the bass pretty well. How about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted February 10, 2004 Report Share Posted February 10, 2004 So far, I've only used it accompanied by recorded music and found that it was neither better nor worse with the BBE, but just different. I was curious about the point of view of someone who tried it with a "live" band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 One thing I wouldn't try it on is vocals in a live situation, it seems to bring out more feedback if you don't watch it you'll make the audience mad. lol. Only use it if you have a feedback eliminator device or have a good enough ear to know what frequency is feeding back and can bring it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveq Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 There's lots of reviews on harmony-central from people who use it live and for recording. I think there was one person who was expecting it to make him sound like Steve Vai but other than that, it got high marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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