New build - The Verdict

[henrim]

5 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Edit: Brain dumb. Iron iii acetate

That’s what I remembered but thought I got it mixed when you said oxide. I had to check and I have iron (III) oxalate which is light sensitive and used to make sensitizer for kallitype photographic process.

[henrim]

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

So it still works!

That is good to hear. Then the color of the solution doesn’t tell what I thought it tells. What kind of tone you get on wood? Does it have cold or warm tint? 

I have made many batches but haven’t really figured what causes quite dramatic changes in both the color of the solution and the tint when applied. 

Granted my methods have not been very consistent but still. Obviously I have no control over the ingredients. But I have used same steel wool and same brand vinegar in most batches. Applied on same species of wood on some batches there have been blueish undertones. While on some they have been more towards brown. And one time purple which I liked the least.

And now the discarded batch didn’t even produce black. There I used different vinegar and it was kept in colder temps than before so maybe those things had effect. Steel wool wasn’t fully dissolved either.

Anyway clear blue tinted solution has given me the purest black. But maybe the color of the solution doesn’t have anything to do with the final color after all.

I guess I would need to take a more scientific approach and make several batches at once with different properties in each of them. 

[Prostheta]

The best information I have is to use a pure iron source such as old nails or whatever. Steel wool isn't the best, but it's the easiest. Spirit vinegar is 5% acetic acid or thereabouts. I don't think it's an accurate process without going to the point where concentrations and processes become less safe. @komodo had fantastic results using Quebracho tea as a source of tannic acid though. 

[henrim]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

source of tannic acid though

That's an other can of worms. I'm using powder extracted from oak galls. Which is high on tannin. Sold to me as 95%. Which I randomly dilute to water. 

[Bizman62]

6 hours ago, henrim said:

What kind of tone you get on wood? Does it have cold or warm tint? 

I'd say it's rather warm than cold. See for yourself, that's maple, cherry and walnut with accent stripes of birch. Just one single stroke without any added tannin:

And I used 30% acetic acid with steel wool.

[Bizman62]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

use a pure iron source such as old nails or whatever. Steel wool isn't the best, but it's the easiest.

I've seen nails and bolts being used but where can you find pure iron nails? The ones I've been using since I learned to hold the hammer have been zinc coated. Same with screws, they all seem to have a rust protection of some sort. Compared to those steel wool seems in my eyes purer.

That said, visiting the local metal store might be interesting as they should know what's in the iron bars they sell. They might even have inexpensive offcuts - paying a tenner for just cutting a piece small enough to be diluted is not the best option!

[Bizman62]

2 hours ago, Prostheta said:

source of tannic acid

The last video about the subject I saw yesterday used Earl Grey. Not new to me, I've previously seen regular black tea been suggested. The cheapest bulk tea has apparently the highest tannic acid content. Half a dozen teabags in a cup or so... Don't know how the strong tea affects the colour, then again "dark" is the goal so it's most likely not an issue.

[henrim]

6 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

pure iron nails

I highly doubt they exist. All nails are some sort of steel alloys. I guess an old uncoated nail would be fine. Thing about steel wool is it's not coated and it is very thin thus easily soluble. I could collect some cast iron chips next time I mill it, although I'm not looking forward doing so as cast iron is very messy to work with. 

[henrim]

The problems I see with steel wool is that it is hard to clean properly. Also it is hard to tell what the alloy really is as they don't (at least I haven't seen) specify it in the package. It is low carbon steel but otherwise.

[Professor Woozle]

If you really want 99.9% pure iron, then you either need to get hold of some modern electrolytic iron (which I think gets used in some transformer cores) or old wrought iron , which is easy to recognise when it's gone very rusty as it gets a "wood-grain" appearance on it's surface. I guess you'd need to use filings for making up the solution though.

[Prostheta]

Whilst I'm unsure whether it'll improve matters significantly, it would be interesting to see how a more chemically pure application worked out simply for comparison. The stuff we make is proper bunk chemistry, but probably more fun because of that

[henrim]

30 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Whilst I'm unsure whether it'll improve matters significantly, it would be interesting to see how a more chemically pure application worked out simply for comparison. The stuff we make is proper bunk chemistry, but probably more fun because of that

I believe it would be more consistent and repeatable. But, yes where’s the fun in that

[Bizman62]

Well, if both the clear and brown solution produces the black, what's to complain about?

Quite some time ago I saw a YT video where a professional woodworker gave a lecture before live audience about ebonizing and other means to make wood black. He wasn't happy at all about iron acetate or anything like that, his choice was India Ink and even that wasn't black enough.

[Professor Woozle]

Thinking about it, I suspect variability in the solution  is more likely down to the vinegar than the wire wool - you might be better off using non-brewed white vinegar, which is basically dilute industrial acetic acid! The steel wool will most likely be general purpose mild steel, so around 0.2% carbon and probably similar amounts of things like manganese and silicon in it.

Going off on the tangent of "not black enough"...

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Professor Woozle

[henrim]

Inlaying the logo to the headstock. Headstock veneer is Blackwood TEK. Same as fretboard. I noticed it’s pretty hard when I cut the fret slots but man, chiseling it is a whole different story. It’s hard, and it’s brittle. But almost homogenous. You can’t really feel the grain direction. Which is good for inlaying but hardness and brittleness makes it difficult to work with. It doesn’t even feel like wood. It’s almost like chiseling really hard plastic or bakelite. 

[Prostheta]

I haven't worked with it myself, even though I tried opening a conversation with the makers when they first introduced the product to the market. I can imagine exactly how it works though, especially based upon your description. Have you worked with African Blackwood before? This has very similar properties in that it is like machining a homogenous composite or resin-based product. Cutters gum up, heat is generated very easily and cutters blunt quickly as a combination of that heat and the toughness of the material. I imagine that it would be very good under a laser though, however the smoke might be somewhat oily and contaminate optics very quickly if not exhausted with prejudice. Looking at your cut edges and the quality of them feels very familiar. You have my condolences, and beer tokens are in the mail.

[Prostheta]

13 hours ago, Professor Woozle said:

Thinking about it, I suspect variability in the solution  is more likely down to the vinegar than the wire wool - you might be better off using non-brewed white vinegar, which is basically dilute industrial acetic acid! The steel wool will most likely be general purpose mild steel, so around 0.2% carbon and probably similar amounts of things like manganese and silicon in it.

Going off on the tangent of "not black enough"...

https://youtu.be/Ul72F0YaAcU

 

Thanks to the recommendations off that video (I remember this advert!) there's an entire rabbithole of metal band parody videos and adverts to go down. Even though the Persil advert has its own cringe value associated with it, I am thankful that most metalheads such as myself can laugh at the hypocrisies and sillier aspects of our favoured musical preferences. This Fedex advert seems to have been made by a team that clearly understands the existence of Slipknot and Alice Cooper as part of their sendup.

 

[henrim]

36 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Have you worked with African Blackwood before?

Not knowingly, although some of the small “ebony” pieces I have collected over the years may as well be African Blackwood. 

41 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

You have my condolences, and beer tokens are in the mail.

Cheers

[henrim]

Funny commercials! Although nothing is funnier than the truth. I’d suggest to watch the 2011 black metal documentary called “Eternal Flame of Gehenna”.

[Prostheta]

43 minutes ago, henrim said:

Not knowingly, although some of the small “ebony” pieces I have collected over the years may as well be African Blackwood. 

Cheers

It smells beautiful, as though it is made from pure Oreo smoke. Ebony smells like sneezes and black boogers.

 

37 minutes ago, henrim said:

Funny commercials! Although nothing is funnier than the truth. I’d suggest to watch the 2011 black metal documentary called “Eternal Flame of Gehenna”.

I haven't seen that one! I presume that you're aware of the local Turku parody band The Black Satans? I think they were more of a joke between friends than a band. This one was filmed at Turku Castle of course

 

 

edit: Oh man, I forgot that they formed Suamenlejjona and have toured a bit. "Urheilu ja Isänmaa" ("Sport and Fatherland") is probably their most known track. Beer, sausage and ice hockey.

[henrim]

Sanding and cleaning to do but otherwise it passes. Considering the inlay work was done with an old screwdriver it came out decent  

Bone inlay is absorbing black saw dust more than I expected so I may have to mask it and clean it separately. 

[Prostheta]

Man, I had this same problem with my glow-in-the-dark epoxy inlays. The broken grains are obviously porous and started hanging onto Ebony dust.

[Stu.]

Not trying to derail, but did you guys ever watch Legalize Murder? It was a UK black metal mockumetary from 2007: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1197329/

 

PS. The headstock inlay looks super sharp!

[Prostheta]

The reviews look pretty lethal. Not seen it myself.

[henrim]

Haven’t seen it either. Gotta give it a try sometime if I can find it.

Black metal is not really my genre although I have seen and heard some that works for me.