Really Considering CNC But The Cost

[Leevis]

Hi All

I really want to build some guitars, currently converting a cheapo Strat into a Frankenstrat and finding it very interesting.

I know that the learning curve is VERY steep on these things but I have the bug. I don't have loads of funds hence why I am looking at the cheaper end of things and need some advice. I am currently looking at the Fox Alien Masuter Pro which is reasonably cheap and it does have an extension kit option. It starts at 40 x 40cm  which is quite small and just about wide enough but certainly not long enough hence why the extension part would be needed.

The question/s I have are 

1. I know its a false economy (although I already have a route) but others are so much more expensive

2. Is it possible to build a jig so that I can build half, reset and then build the other half?

One of the main reasons I want to do this is because the tooling I would need to buy plus jigs and templates etc would probably cost similar and I do like to learn new things and am currently enjoying a 3d printer I am currently using

What do you think

[Bizman62]

I'm not against CNC but in my opinion the first thing to ask is how many similar guitars are you going to build? Because that's where a CNC really shines. Learning to code and use it is valuable as such as you mention but it's not cheap.

The tooling  plus jigs and templates... I've been participating a course for the last decade, led by a master luthier. There's been a few dozen fellow builders, none of which has actually bought a template other than one for routing pickup cavities or similar. Of course we can use the templates made by our tutor but there's been numerous fancy builds without ready made templates. There's free drawings available and printing them full size doesn't cost much. A piece of MDF isn't too expensive either, nor is a glue stick to attach a piece of the drawing on it. One fellow builder only had a full size colour photo of the semi-hollow body he wanted to build! So the cost of the templates is minimal. What about the tools? A good enough handheld router is about 50, €, £ or $,  A band saw is nice but if you can't afford that, a jigsaw for 20 money units will cut the outlines close enough to be refined with other tools. You'd still need a bunch of hand tools to finish anything shaped by a CNC machine so those can't be added on opposite side.

[MiKro]

I agree with @Bizman62 on this. How many of the same do you need to make. The advantage of CNC is the ability to repeat accurately more that anything. Drawing up the plans should be done no matter what. CAD has it's advantages. So does doing it 1/1 scale on paper.  I use CNC, so I have made many of the same instrument so I could sell them. So what are your goals? I also do things by hand as they are one offs . I may still use  CAD for the drawing as I usually do not need 1/1 scale on paper to understand what I want to do..

MK

PS, The Fox Alien is belt driven don"t waste your money. Go with Ball screws and linear rails or stay out of the CNC adventure. The low end stuff will be more trouble that it is worth.

mk

[henrim]

I agree with guys. No point getting a CNC for building one guitar. On the hand if you want to CNC as a hobby then why not. To me the only reason not to get a CNC is that I don’t want to tinker with it. If I was a business I would get one and hire someone else to solve the problems that comes bundled with it.

[GenerativeGuitars]

The argument that you will can make a living making a new guitar or a new model or easy parts is easily busted by the high supply of guitars. But hey, if you can, do it. You seem motivated!

My CNC setup is about 10K EUs (2018 money) (High-z cnc-step+ rhino3d + rhinocam) but you do need time to learn the ropes and break a few mills. After 5 years of carving parts in wood, acrylics and aluminum, it's obviously a great choice to save lots of time. But it doesn't prevent the manual finish work after. Not to mention testing before you have a working part (that fits into the next part)... The learning curve can be high (with RhinoCAM) but easier programs make you waste lots of time to get precision or stop break mills.

I specialize in making different but modular parts each time with my CNC - I dont make many per month because im not selling but I do want perfection - and learning to make guitars is the new challenge I took! It takes design/development cost and experience to bring the cost of making one guitar right. After that it's easy depending how you sell them.

Without this, you're better off doing guitars with routing templates. It's way simpler, faster (seemingly), cheaper. Dust remains the same. And a CNC takes a lot of place away if you dont have much to dedicate to your hobby, business.

Advantages of a cnc - you dont need a planer, drilling station, routing, sanding (to a point), sawing. Good set of chisels needed. Files and sanding also for corners if you make any in your design. With the right CAM program you can even get a perfect finish. And it takes 20 minutes for a body, neck or fret (per side). This is my last simulation estimate, without tool/setup cost/time.

Im almost ready to carve 1 nice block of wood for a body. But it's made for one draft of a guitar. So i have to adjust the neck for a new neck that's coming. So it is not the same as the neck i modeled for my body. I have already seen and had my guitar compared to 3 other models (after i cut a router template from my model - i can do that too), and not are the same. So im not sure where my pickup cavities will do, how the neck will work regarding the bridge distance. Until i measure them... So each part you get for your guitar you have to include in your design, then cam then cnc... It's a heavy process.

Im emptying my bag here, sorry for the long write. 8 months to program a design and then make it before q2 2024 is am after-work hobby challenge. I dont want to waste wood or CNC time. But after 5 years Im confident i can make 1-10 guitars/parts that fit perfectly together.

Last remarks for a solid cut body:
- body cnc cut is easy - any part.
- neck, head and pickup inserts/screw holes = easy (hard to design)
- frets board - easy
- fret slots - (cnc sensitive - a real saw and jig might be better but i would do precuts for the saw with the cnc
- Manual work: all the other cavities to fit the wires.

I've been researching cavities and how to design it/them in my program/model. It's much harder and tolerances will be the problem - that can be fixed with manual TLC!

Wood out of the cnc is never perfect...

[ADFinlayson]

The other thing to consider about CNC machines - The smaller, cheaper ones will take an absolute age to cut a large piece of hard wood into a guitar body or neck, literally hours. You could have have it done with a 10" bandsaw and a hand router in a fraction of the time. I'm not anti CNC, I don't have one and I like working with hand tools, but if I get to the point where I need one to build at a higher speed then I will consider it, or possibly a small one to do mundane tasks like making headstock veneers on control cavity covers etc.