imunwell2 Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 I used an oven to help heat cure my paint on my guitar, but don't know if this is a customary practice. I can get an oven that will hold 3 guitar bodies, but don't know if I'd really use it. Does anyone else heat cure? Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJohn Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I've done this.I wouldn't use the top or bottom racks,just the middle.Getting too close to the element can result in burning.A heat lamp is best as you could get some warping in an oven.I set the oven at 150-200 and let it sit for 30-45 minutes,then turn off the oven and let the temperature stabalize.Pulling it out to quick can cause heat shock and run the risk of cracking,(kinda like a cheese cake). Also make sure that the oven vent doesn't have anything over it and the room is vented.And make sure you know your oven first-hot spots etc. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelow Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Greetings from Poland This is my first post on this forum so 'hello' to everybody And I'm sorry for my English... I use oven to cure acrylic clear. I set 60 Celcius deegres and then every hour in the oven is like a 1,5 week in normal conditions. 7-8 hrs and your top coat is almost fully cured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 sorry to be negative about your first post but it seems like a bad idea to me. ignoring the fire risk for a second (THERE IS A FIRE RISK!!!!!!!) whats that heat going to do to the wood, i try to avoid putting instruments in extremes of temperature or humidity so i aint going to be putting a guitar body in the oven. i believe its common practice to use those infared heat lamps on cars when they are sprayed... ya know, something that wont actually ignoite the lacquer fumes. i still wouldnt want that heat on a piece of wood but it is relatively gentle and definately safer now i have to confess something.... i have put pedals in the oven to cure before. it was an electric oven and i left them outside for an hour after spraying before putting them in a very low oven for a few hours... the amount of fumes it left in my kitchen made me not want to do it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I live in Nevada, so sort of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Ha! Nevada! I live in Virginia - kinda like Nevada, but moist. I've used heat lamps before - but really try to keep it outside when I do. I had a prior post where I was having a time getting some acrylic to dry (no matter how thin I sprayed), the heat lamp worked great, suspended about 1m above the piece. Made a drying cage just to support this habit so that a fan could pull air passed the light across the body (SLOWLY) as air flow is an important element in curing finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelow Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Allright, you got me wrong... First thing: my 'oven' isn't actually regular oven bought in the shop. That's my own construction with no heat bulbs, just resistant (couldn't find better word in my dictionary...) wire powered with =12V, 5A (so 60W of power). Temperature of wire doesn't exceed 120 Celsius deegres. And acrylic won't start to fire below 400 deegres Max air temperature in my 'heat box' (to not call it 'oven') was 62.5 deegres after 5 hours without opening it. But when a guitar is inside I open it every 15 minutes to give it some fresh air and the temperature varies from 50 to 60 deegres. I've done paintjob on 5 guitars already, 3 of them cured in that heat box. Those are two of my projects in progress, top coated 4 days ago, today wetsanded and waiting to be polished: <- Fretless (still) Ibanez RG 370 with straight peghead <- Slammer CT-21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 thats a relief!!! i still prefer to keep things at a nice ambient temperature when working with wood at its finished dimensions but that swirl certainly looks nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelow Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Thanks Do you dry wood yourself? Some time ago I went to a luthier and he used furnace (hope this is proper name, I mean big 'box' with a fireplace and some space to put wood) to dry wood. And there was over 200 Celsius deegres! I asked if the wood won't crack and he said that when the moisture of wood is below 12% than the wood wont change it's structure. And 20 years ago he also used a kind of oven to cure cellulose laquers in few hours And check out Jim Fogarty's site That's amazing what he can do Jim Fogarty's Website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 no i dont dry wood myself (i dont chop down trees either) but i put alot of effort into storing the dry wood i purchase in a stable environment and i am aware of what happens during drying (kiln or otherwise) .... like with any drying process the wood changes dimension as it loses moisture. thats fine with raw lumber, you allow for shrinkage and waste... not quite the same with a guitar at its final shape i am aware of jims work and have always been impressed but wasnt aware he used excess heat to cure paint.(i.e above what a guitar could expect to encounter in its usual habitat) i guess this maybe something you can get away with on guitar bodies if people are doing it carefully without problems .... but necks i think i would rather be patient and keep with my stable environment anyway, i will leave my original criticism because hopefully it will stop somebody who misreads your post from a serious fire hazzard and we have clarified the process you use if others want to try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I mostly use a hair dryer to heat set Autoair, not enough temp to mess up wood. For most paints it wont give you enough difference to bother with. For instance on a 2k poly you may gain 10 hours before you can sand it (4 over 10-12) I just prefer to clear and leave it for a day or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) Interesting topic this one...............and thanks for the mention Kelow. As WesV rightly says excessive heat on a guitar body (and particularly a guitar neck) is never a good idea in my opinion and should be avoided, but baking a finish in a consistent moderately warm well ventilated envoironment definitely does help to cure lacquer off. When I first started I was painting and lacquering in my old stone built garage with very limited fascilities (not ideal here in Orkney where there is an almost constant gale blowing), so keeping work free of dust particularly while lacquering was a nightmare despite all my best efforts at sealing the building. At that time I made up a kind of 'oven' out of two old fridges connected together, this was warmed via light bulbs and a dimmer switch and I used an industrial vacuum cleaner (set to blow) to blow air through a filter into the oven with an exhaust filter at the other end. Basically a very crude positive pressure system that gave me at maximum about 40 degrees of temperature - warm, but not roasting hot. This served to keep the dust off of the lacquered guitars (that were hastily set into it after lacquering on purpose made carriers - very, very basic setup) and helped the lacquer set off more quickly. It actually worked quite well once you got into the swing of doing it - but it wasn't ideal. These days with the spraybooth I have now those problems don't arrise, but I still would never over heat a finished guitar body or neck. If you're fortunate enough to live in a nice warm climate, the very best thing for curing (certainly 2k lacquers) is sunlight - once your lacquer is touch dry if it's a nice day outside hang it (securely of course) outside in the sunlight - this really speeds up the curing process. Do make sure it's touch dry though or all you'll do is create a very expensive fly trap! Along the same lines, I've an old sunbed that I've set up to hang lacquered guitars in front of (not in the spraybooth!!), as the UV - not always readily available naturally here - reduces the cure times between multiple rubbing down , masking and lacquering stages. Edited July 23, 2008 by Foggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 thx for the clarification on your process jim - - i forgot how far north you are and it does make sense to have a warmer/lighter environment for curing your guitars considering where you live!! i now have an image of you as the most tanned man in orkney i think my concern in this thread mainly came from the terminology/language barrier and any confusion that may arise from that... i know a lot of people get frustrated waiting for lacquer to dry and we would all like quick fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) thx for the clarification on your process jim - - i forgot how far north you are and it does make sense to have a warmer/lighter environment for curing your guitars considering where you live!! i now have an image of you as the most tanned man in orkney I wish WezV!! Mind you, I have to admit it is glorious up here today . I do sometimes miss the weather 'south' though as I am originally from the midlands too (Leicester), but that said, the better weather is about the only thing I miss - apart from the almost constant wind, it's pretty good up here. It's actually perfect weather up here today for curing a lacquer coat outside and isn't that just typical, I'm not at that stage today! Edited July 23, 2008 by Foggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think the thing people need to really be aware of is if the finish they have chosen can be heat cured also. If its not designed for it or you do it wrong you will be trapping all the solvents under a thin film of "dry" and the underlying finish will never cure. I know it's beating a dead horse but this is where following the manufacturers directions helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think the thing people need to really be aware of is if the finish they have chosen can be heat cured also. If its not designed for it or you do it wrong you will be trapping all the solvents under a thin film of "dry" and the underlying finish will never cure. I know it's beating a dead horse but this is where following the manufacturers directions helps. i haven't seen it on wood but i have seen it on metal and it ain't pretty when those solvents finaly decide its time to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) I think the thing people need to really be aware of is if the finish they have chosen can be heat cured also. If its not designed for it or you do it wrong you will be trapping all the solvents under a thin film of "dry" and the underlying finish will never cure. I know it's beating a dead horse but this is where following the manufacturers directions helps. i haven't seen it on wood but i have seen it on metal and it ain't pretty when those solvents finaly decide its time to come out. The main reason that solvents get trapped is usually that the finish is just applied too thickly. Whether baked or normally air dried, if almost any finish is laid on too thickly, or recoated too soon, the solvents in the outer surface will evaporate out to air and form a skin before the solvents in the finish below has had a chance to disperse. This is when you can get microscopic bubbles in your finish or even 'fisheyes' as the solvent below tries to escape through the outer surface. Light coats and adherence to the manufacturers instructions (for whatever finish you're using) is more often than not the key to a good finish. Edited July 29, 2008 by Foggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelow Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Jim I'm happy You've read this. Your work in an inspiration for me I've read everything on your site few times Yesterday I hung my guitar in the sunlight and checked the temperature after 2 hours. It was nearly 75 Celsius deegres on dark blue area So I think curing lacquer in my 'oven' is quite safe. And there are no flies As I know heat helps with all kinds of paints (especially with 2K paints) but the temperature for different kinds may vary. I'm sure the best temperature for acrylic lacquer is 60 deegres. After 7-8 hours in oven lacquer is fully cured. And to convince you: that swirled Ibanez was finished in less than month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syxxstring Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 No arguments from me foggy, but heat curing improperly only makes things worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 No arguments from me foggy, but heat curing improperly only makes things worse... Yes, to be honest, the work that I take on is almost always on solid bodied guitars these days and so I tend to work pretty much exclusively with 2k lacquers - I just like the finish they give. My experience of the many different finishes that are available today is by comparison with many of the people on this forum, severely limited . So I suspect as syxxxstring rightly points out there will almost definitely be finishes out there that really just 'don't like it hot'! I actually think that the amount of different types of finish available today, whilst good news in one sense, is also one of the reasons many people are wary of taking on the finishing of their own guitars. It's almost as if there's so many potential options out there, that for the first timer it must be an absolute nightmare trying to decide which route to go down. That's where forums like this one come into their own - at least here there's somewhere we can all go and pick each others brains when things don't quite work out as we'd intended Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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