Speedbass Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 I visited a site where they recommend the use of pure silver wire inside guitars. The lingo being used there is way over my head but the sound demo they are posting is very impressive indeed. Could they be on to something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Do they sell wire? Seriously, it probably does make a small difference - it's unlikely that it's a difference that you can actually hear. The HiFi industry is overrun with this kind of hype, and I think it's starting to bleed over. Take anything that can't be explained in simple terms with a big ol' grain of salt - it's probably marketing Mojo. I think Ansil salvages some silver wire out of old TV sets, and he seems to like it, but I don't think I'd spend serious cash on it without some compelling evidence that it has a notable effect on tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbass Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Do they sell silver wire? Gosh, I don't know. The site is about a new concept for pickups. They boast of being the best in their field and the audio wav demo seems to prove them right. I mean , is it still hype if you can back it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob7 Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 whats the site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedbass Posted May 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 I am using a computer at a different location, can't remember the damn link. I'll post the link first thing tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 22, 2004 Report Share Posted May 22, 2004 Do they sell silver wire? Gosh, I don't know. The site is about a new concept for pickups.So they do sell it - is it expensive? They boast of being the best in their field and the audio wav demo seems to prove them right. I mean , is it still hype if you can back it up? Well, it sounds like they've got you convinced! If it works for you, and you can afford it, use it. I have no vested interest in standing in the way of progress, and no personal stake in what kind of pickups you use. Your question was about wire issues that you admitted you had limited knowledge of, so I did my best to try to explain what I've learned through my somewhat limited experience. Listen, I don't care if the manufacturing process involves extra-terrestrial technology or strange rituals in the desert outside Taos, if the pickups sound good I'm all for 'em. It just takes a little more than some ad copy and a well-produced wave file to convince my tired old self that silver wire has any major effect on tone ( and that was your question). BTW, welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 i must agree with lovekraft, silver wire has apperently lower impedance, capicatence, and inductance, which i have seen ppl say has a better, clearer tone when used, when in actual fact i find that my copper wire does the trick just jim dandy... the silver wire may be better, but it will take precision instrumentation to measure it!!! Just my views Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_ed Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Hi Guys, I used to work in the audio industry, and I sold a pile of premium cables. And the quality of the cables/wires does make a difference. And it can be a very noticeable difference. It depends alot on matching the quality of the gear to the cables in terms of bang for the buck. That said, silver does have a slightly different sound from copper, a bit softer and warmer. Bang for the buck, copper is still the best because pure silver wire is $$$$$. But the real big difference is that when copper oxidizes, the oxide no longer provides a path for the electrical signal. Silver, on the other hand, when it oxidizes, the oxide still provides a signal path. Time for some personal opinion: The quality of your soldering and the quality of your components will probably have more impact on your sound quality than just the simple question of copper vs silver. I am assuming, of course, that you are comparing high grade copper vs high grade silver. Guitar Ed Advice worth what you paid for it. Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 if anyone wants to try the test on silver on the following points i will ship them some demo wire free of charge to let them try it. holding its shape ease of soldering. ease of stripping and last but not least sound wise. i dont' use anything else. hmm not to start a battle but why does the military use only silver wire. very rare will you see copper wire in the militray products.. unless it is usualy silver coated. i learned it from a guy who builds amps and guitars and effects. and he said one day he stopped working on the amp and didint' change over to working on guitars. and well it made my gutiar sound ten times better. i was stunned..a simple rewire and i used to have the studio tracks to back it up. direct into the board. it was brighter. more focused. and well since i switch between crystal clear and heavy focused sound i want my sound to keep up. other anomilys.. i dont' belive in using carbon resistors for amps.. there is no mojo. using a mulitimeter replace a simple booster with the correct carbon caps.. fantastic. much better than my metal films. 30yearold tube amp capacitors.. i plug them into the same values..[measured it with meter] and dropped it into a stompbox and it was fatter. osciliscope even showed the difference on a bread board.. not sure why.. all i know is now i have a fromula one always mispell every fifth word lol for low gain boosters or overdrives.. carbon resistors all the way, and fat tube amp caps. that are ancient preferably. for high gain metal stuff, one carbon stage one metal film to cut down on noise.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Oh, goody! I love a lively discussion! Guitar Ed, I respect your experience in high-end audio, but I have a couple of questions: 1) It may be a difference in semantics, but when i hear the words "warmer" and "softer", I think of high frequency rolloff and attenuation/compression - aren't those things we don't want? 2) Since an insulated cable is unlikely to oxidize under the insulation, and correctly soldered joints are also fairly immune to corrosion, wouldn't it make better sense to use silver on interconnects, where oxidation can become an issue, and cheaper copper wire for cables? Ansil, I have the utmost respect for you, but when was the last time you heard a piece of military audio equipment that didn't sound really bad? Their use of silver is to minimize corrosion damage in harsh environments - I doubt I'll ever have my trusty Ibanez hip-deep in a Colombian rainforest or the Niger Delta. If you like it, use it! Same goes for your old caps and carbon comp resistors - just don't try to sell me on the fact that they are somehow better (There is actually a difference in the sound due to carbon comps in amps, but only at voltage levels well above 100 volts - anywhere else, they're just noisy and "self-adjusting".). If your formula works for you, great, but I just spent 2 years weaning a bunch of young musicians off $100 speaker cables, and I really think it's time to bust a few myths. Finally, this tells it all: It is quite scientifically conceivable that some cables do cause a difference in sound, because of the differences in DC resistance, interconductor capacitance, and connector attachment alone. The effects of exotic conductor weaving and materials are not so well established. In general, these effects (once we eliminate DC resistance), seem to be small. However, if your system is at least fairly good, then some folks have observed (although not in an experimental, double-blind sense) significant differences in system performance with different cables. The effects are said to be quite system specific; the only real guideline is to try them and see which ones seem to sound better in your system. So unless you can show significant quantifiable differences on an o-scope or a spectrum analyzer, or consistent results in a multiple double-blind "taste test" using educated observers, I maintain that it's all snake oil - however, for those who are interested, I do have a limited supply of oil of Aphrodite and Grand Wazoo dust available at reasonable prices! No offense intended, I hope none was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 I can respect that LK, No worries on me i was just trying to offer a taste test of sorts for people free of charge. but i woudl be interested in some oil of Aphrodite and Grand Wazoo dust i also need some shark toenail clippings for my next amp for KrazyDerek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Before I take you up on your offer, Ansil, I had a question for the community at large-- If I'm rewiring my guitar with silver instead of copper, where does it get replaced? Or more specifically-- where would one snip off the old pickup wire and splice on the silver wire? Or is the silver just for the pot-to-pot-to-jack wiring? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Greg, please don't cut the pickup leads! Splices are problematic at best, and if you ever decide to rewire things or use the pickups in another guitar (or decide to sell them), you'll be glad you left the leads long. Just replace the hookup wire in your harness - the shielded cable on good pickups is designed into them, and should give you the sound associated with that pickup, so there's no need to replace it. My two cents, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 Well, as it turns out, the pickup that I have already has a lead that's about an inch too short, so I was planning on doing a splice as it stands-- are you recommending I replace the entire thing? They're SD pickups, but I don't notice any convenient place to remove the wire, on the pickup. That's part of the reason I was asking-- because I'm going to have to do something about this pickup's wire anyhow. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 I'd recommend that you do as little as possible to the pickup. If you have to add some shielded cable to a lead that is too short, OK, but leave as much original cable as possible. I use a Belden lo-capacitance coax that I bought too much of a couple of years ago, but I try not to use it if there's enough pickup lead. I always think of a splice as a "weak link", both mechanically and electrically, and avoid it whenever possible. Again, my $.02, other people may feel differently, but I believe in eliminating as many potential trouble spots as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted May 23, 2004 Report Share Posted May 23, 2004 I'm certain it's a 'weak link'.... Of course, "how much so" is a matter for speculation unless one wants to do some testing-- I don't imagine it'll alter the tone in a way that will transform the pickup into a dud. Which brings me back to the original topic-- if one isn't altering a pickup's cable, then what is one supposed to do with this silver wire experiment? Or is that just for building one from scratch? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansil Posted May 24, 2004 Report Share Posted May 24, 2004 well actually i do resolder wire to my bobbins solder points but only on pickups that have stable enough setups to do this. most of my picups ahve there own boards that i slide under there and solder the pickup leads too for a better connection. but then again this is just what i do cause i ruined a 100$ pickup once. by not being gentle. i am 6'3" 320lb man, i am not known for being gentle. so i want my stuff to last. but again. opinions are like elbows most people have them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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