jer7440

Dude, check out the link in Setchs last post. Its an awesome run through of how he built his LP. Very good stuff. All I think these guys are trying to tell you is that the difficulty level of your suggested mod, and building from scratch are very similar. But building from scratch has a much less questionable outcome.

HI I'm Paaaatttttt. heheheheh . That was some funny stuff. Female by the way.

My first guitar was a Peavey Tracer II. It was painted flourescent green with blue and black splash paint. What a piece of crap. Wouldn't stay in tune for more than 30 sec.

I don't mind at all I modelled that top using a program called Mastercam. Mastercam is a full blown CAD/CAM software, meaning I can design and generate toolpaths for my cnc all in the same software. I can tell you right out that my model is not an exact replica of a real les paul. The 2D perimeter is right on the money, but the carve is my own creation. I have been working on this thing on and off for about a year, I'd get really frustrated trying to get it right and then I'd say screw it. Then I found Setchs build in the in progress section. The way he carved his top kind of got me headed in the right direction creating my cad model. The carve around the lower bout is probably pretty close to the real thing, but through the waist area my model is quite a bit more extreme. It's more curvey and the carve comes into the middle more than a real LP. As far as the process I used to model the top, here goes: First I found cad file of the perimeter( John Cattos .dxf file in the download section on the MIMF). I did some clean up to that file to make the curves true radii, kind of like what I talked about above. Next I established my top thickness and my carve depth (.750 top thickness w/ .500 carve depth). From there I created a series of surfaces to create the carve. I started with the suface that lays under the finger board extension, this needed to be at a 4 deg angle, for the neck angle. Next I created the angled surface that Setch called the Pickup plane, this extends from the bridge to the end of the finger board. From there I created a series of curves that would split the top into about 6 different sections. These curves lie in 3D space, and blend from the top of the carve at a z depth of 0.000 down to the bottom of the carve at z-.500. These curves are the bounderies I used to define my surfaces. I found it almost impossible to perfectly duplicate the real LP. Trying to copy it without expensive digitizing equipment was just too much for me. I am really happy with what I have come up with though, seems a little sexier to me, but I am a little biased . I can't wait to cut it! If you want I can get some more screen shots of my model at different angles. Just let me know.

Bigd, I assume you were talking to me? This is my first guitar, so I would like to get a little experience milling wood before I try someone elses. I'm hoping to mill a prototype out of mdf sometime between now and x-mas. My only real concern is the carved top, the outside profile and the pockets should be no problem. As far as the neck angle goes I am working with a 4 deg neck angle. The angle will be milled into the pocket in the body and the neck will be built straight. The blank size you listed looks dead on, although I was thinking a LP was thicker than 1.75. Are you looking for a carved top or a flat top? I'd love to get into milling guitar parts for other people, but I just need a little more experience before I try milling someone elses 5a top I'll post here when I'm ready to take on other jobs.

A curve is made up of "true" radii, acutal parts of circles joined together. Think of a spline as a dot to dot. A spline is made up of a series of points with a curved line laid over them in a best fit kind of way. With a curve or true radius each radius can be mathmatically defined ie. it has an absolute center and radius dimension. A spline on the other hand lacks nice neat mathmatical definition. A cnc machine can cut a true radius or curve perfectly because it can be broken down into X and Y coordinates. To machine a spline that has no absolute definition in terms of X and Y, The spline must be broken into tiny staight line segments that can be defined in x and y, and make up close approximation of the spline. When you machine a spline ( it can be done), you end up with 2 problems. The first is surface finish. Because you are machining a bunch of straight lines your curves tend to look faceted instead of smooth. This can be somewhat counteracted by breaking the spline into smaller and smaller straight line segments that more closely approximate what you have drawn, but this brings us to the second problem. Every little line segment making up your spline equals one line of code in your cnc program. This can be a problem on complex splines depending on how much memory you cnc controler has. I don't know if I explained that very well or if anyone really cares, but if you have any questions just ask and I will try to clarify.

Gitcad, I just got done looking over your site and I think your ideas a fabulous! I do cad and cnc work and it still takes me alot of thinking to get my guitar ideas onto my computer screen. I am designing my first guitar right now, and things like neck design make me nervous. A program that would take my numbers and generate the appropriate neck geometry would be an awesome tool. I hope you stay active in this forum, and I will be watching your progress

Here is a 3d model of a Les Paul top that I have been working on. Here are another view of the top and 2 views of an unfinished neck. neck back of neck isometric top This is all machinable data created in mastercam. I hope to start machining this guitar after x-mas on the cnc machine at my work. I realize the carve on the lp top is not exact but I'm really happy with it. The neck drawing obviously is not finished yet still needs a tennon. These are the types of cad work you would need to do 3d work like carving a lp top.

3d work does tend to be slow on any machine. To get a really good finish you have to use a cutter stepover of only .003 or .004 of an inch. (this is assuming a .500 dia. ball nose cutter). Another huge thing to consider is how are you going to program this machine. If you use a cad/cam program, what is the learning curve like, and how much does the software cost. In most software 2d stuff is very simple to draw and to program cutter paths. The 3d stuff is where it gets more difficult. At work I use a program called Mastercam, and most of what I do is 2d. This software also has great 3d functionality but it takes some getting used to. From what i have heard mastercam is one of the easier softwares to learn, but it is fairly expensive for a hobby operation. This PG post shows a Les Paul top i designed using Mastercam http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=11507 I hope to start cutting this sucker around x-mas time. Any way all that to say your programming system is important too.

The first thing you need to decide is your defininition of finer work. What are your tolerances? Are you talking +/- .01 or +/-.1 of an inch? Also what kind of repeatability you need? If you were to make the same part over and over again, what kind of tolerance do you need from part to part? There seems to be some question as to the rigidity of this machine. The machines rigidity will effect both accuracy and repeatability. Another big factor tied to machine rigidity is machining speed. The more rigid the machine, the faster and deeper you can cut. Any time you purchase a piece of equipment like this you should ask for a demonstration. Have them cut one of your parts. My company was looking for a new wire edm machine. We found one that was 1/2 the price of the big name machines, but everyone said it's to cheap to be any good. So we went to the showroom and we brought a test piece that required the tightest tolerance we expected this machine to hold. It did it with no problem, so we bought the machine and we love it. If it wouldn't have held the tolerance we would have walked away and only been out the piece of steel. It's cheap insurance to get a demo. I program, setup and run a cnc mill and edm machine a work so I know a little about the process, although, i have never seen a shopbot machine. My comments are more based in my knowledge of more industrial sized equipment.

Grand Rapids Michigan

How can you deny DLR? He was the Voice of VH when they really rocked . Sammy is great, and he really rocked on his own as well. It just seemed to me there music just got a little wimpy when the joined together

So what you are saying is, depending on which sucky football team wins, will decide what sucky candidate we end up with.

Hotrock, You used the system to better yourself, and thats awesome. There are just too many people over here( in the states) who are content to live on what the system will give them. They have no intentions of bettering themselves. And hey, the government ups the paycheck for every kid they pop out. So let's have another child. It just gets to be a visious cycle.

Love It I really liked the lead stuff. I can't seem the get my ears around playing leads. Kinda pisses me off. Love your stuff though

Dude check this pagechrome bolt.com. At just a glance I see 1/4-20 at least 1 3/4 long. hope this helps.

Would you be opposed to an allen head in your bolt? If not try searching for a 1/4-20 stainless steel button head screw. I realize it's not chrome but you could probably polish the heads to be quite shiney

If you do a google search for "european mount", there are several websites that discuss how to prepare animal bones. A european mount is where instead of mounting the animals head with the hide, you just mount the bare skull and antlers.

Wow, what a great thread! It's great to read all of these varied view points. When the USA was formed it was formed by people who had had their fill of being overly controlled by government. That being said those people went about creating a government that in theory wouldn't be allowed to have too much control over its people. In 1787 the founders wrote the constitution. If you skim over this document you will see that it lays out the ground work for how our government will function. This was nice and all but the founders soon realized that it didn't protect the basic rights of the people. So in 1789 the drafted the Bill of rights. The first rights they protected for the people were the right to free speech, religion and the right of the people to assemble and protest. The very next thing they adressed was the right of the people "to keep and bear arms". This was so improtant to them that it was the second thing they addressed! If you look throughout history, countries that have stripped this right from the people have paid in higher crime rates and invasions. Look how well it worked out for Poland around the time of WWII. As far as health care goes, I would have to agree with Westheman, in that our government is the last establishment you want doing something if you want it done efficiently. I can't think of one gov. program that is efficient. What happens when you decide that John Kerrys health plan for everyone, isn't good enough for you. Well then you can go back to paying your HMO and being taxed to death for a health care plan that isn't good enough I just keep coming back to the idea the our country was founded on the principal of very limited government involvement in the lives of the people. You will never convince me that any government has my interests in mind, or know better how to spend my money than I do. And again a great discussion and thanks for all of your opinions P.S. Erikbojerik for President

I would like to respond to some of the points made in favor of John Kerry. As with every one else, I am not trying to be inflamatory, only trying to tell it the way I see it. Mods edit away if I fail to be nice. First of all in regards to national health care. The biggest issue I have with John Kerry is that he is trying to convince the american people that he is going to give them "free" health care, and the rich people (any one making over $200,000/yr) are going to pay for it. He said in the debates that he was going to roll back President Bushs' tax cut for the rich, this is how he wants to pay for all the new programs he wants. The only problem is this tax cut roll back doesn't even begin to pay for his health care plan. So who will pay for it? All the people JK said he wouldn't raise taxes on. Secondly, and I know this is a hot button issue, is the definition of when life begins. I have two kids, one is almost 3 and the other just turned 1. Feeling them kicking and moving around in my wifes stomach was one of the most amazing things I have ever experienced. This starts to happen long before the child would be self sustaining outside of the womb. In my opinion there is clearly somone alive in there. As far as the war in Iraq is concerned, I don't think JK will do any better. I think he has already alienated the allies that are with us, and he has told the world that this war is a mistake. How will he rally new allies to fight in a mistake. I think that JK is also a little too conerned about world opinion. I think there probably is in general a negative opinion of Americans in the world. It doesn't seem to matter how many time we join in someone elses fight or clean up after someone elses natural disaster. If the good we do doesn't win a favorable opinion in the world, why should we be that concerned about world opinion when it comes to defending ourselves? I like skibum would like to know from out international friends here, whether or not my perceptions of the world opinion of our country our accrurate. They may well not be. As I said at the beggining, these are my opinions(you asked for a conservative opinion and I tried to give one) and I mean no offense to anyone who disagrees. But like a great man once said "Here's to you and here's to me, if ever we should disagree, !@#$ you here's to me" Just kidding!

Assuming you want to build a tube amp, check out this site. the AX84 project They have several different amps you can build and the also have sound clips of each one.

LGM Love the mustang. I really like the detail painting around the exhaust and the guns. What size is it, around a .60 two stroke?

In a high production situation, as a machine operator, Lex is right on. You just stand there loading parts and pushing the start button. Typically though operators arent trained to do much more that that. The skills I am talking about are designing, programming, and building fixtures. When I think of the possibilities for custom inlay or body carving, for the custom guitar maker, it is just endless. I know most don't have access to this equipment, I just happen to work in a place where I do, and I don't have access to alot of nice wood working tools, so cnc for me!

Give me your router and your templates and your band saw and your sander and... etc. etc. , then you can talk to me about your guitars being hand made. A cnc is just another tool. In the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing, it just makes useless dust and splinters. Sorry I don't mean to go on a rant, it is just frustrating to me when people who obviously have no idea what is involved in making a guitar on a cnc, start going on about hand made. Now I'm done and I feel much better

I'll take that as a compliment! She was pretty hot... I mean...ah... ya know for a cartoon rabbit.