joshhill67 Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Hello everyone, I am building myself a silent guitar to practice on. I have shamelessly stolen the design of the Yamaha silent guitars because I absolutely love the look: I didn't want to buy one for a few reasons - 1) price 2) they are nylon stringed 3) they are plastic and 4) they fold down. So here is my attempt - a current work in progress. Today I made the basic shape of the knee rests out of Flexi-Ply. Tomorrow when it is warmer I will glue it and leave it to dry. Then later I will start work on the body and neck - a single piece of wood like on a neck-though guitar (or possibly a single piece made from laminated woods or plywood). I will update this thread with progress and questions as I go! My first question I suppose is suggestions for what to construct the body from - less from a practical standpoint and more from aesthetics. I initially had planned to make this knee rest / sides out of a single piece of steam-bent ash, stained a light grey, and have the body match. Now that I have gone with a plywood construction on the outside I'm unsure what to do for the rest of it. Any suggestions would be great! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, joshhill67 said: Hello everyone, I am building myself a silent guitar to practice on. I have shamelessly stolen the design of the Yamaha silent guitars because I absolutely love the look: I didn't want to buy one for a few reasons - 1) price 2) they are nylon stringed 3) they are plastic and 4) they fold down. So here is my attempt - a current work in progress. Today I made the basic shape of the knee rests out of Flexi-Ply. Tomorrow when it is warmer I will glue it and leave it to dry. Then later I will start work on the body and neck - a single piece of wood like on a neck-though guitar (or possibly a single piece made from laminated woods or plywood). I will update this thread with progress and questions as I go! My first question I suppose is suggestions for what to construct the body from - less from a practical standpoint and more from aesthetics. I initially had planned to make this knee rest / sides out of a single piece of steam-bent ash, stained a light grey, and have the body match. Now that I have gone with a plywood construction on the outside I'm unsure what to do for the rest of it. Any suggestions would be great! wow, that should be a pretty interesting build to watch! looks cool. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshupe Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Very nice. What is flexi-ply? Very interesting build. Cheers Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 13, 2019 Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, pshupe said: Very nice. What is flexi-ply? Very interesting build. Cheers Peter. kind of wondered that myself. I've heard that term refer to a different product, when I was younger -at cabinet shops. There it referred to 3/4 plywood that had 1/8" cuts through it every 1/2". Whatever gets you to the church on time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) At the simplest level it is plywood that is flexible What this means in practice is that the grain all runs in the same way, rather than the layers being at 90 degrees to each other. I'm sure there are many types of flexi-ply, but this one is two thin sheets of wood, with a layer of fabric between them, and some sort of flexible adhesive holding it all together. About 5mm thick in all. On its own it is incredibly flimsy. I have used 3 layers, and I hope that when the glue dries it will provide some structural integrity.... Will let you know when I un-clamp it and find out!! I am currently trying to decide what size to make the neck and body. I have an old $99 guitar (fender squire?) that I am canabalising for parts, but one of the things I wanted was for this to play like an acousitc - i.e. heavy gague strings and a wider neck / bridge to allow finger-picking. I suppose I just need to buy a wider bridge, but I don't want to spend too much - any suggestions on something that will simulate the string spacing of an acoustic guitar without breaking the bank? Edited January 13, 2019 by joshhill67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2019 Body is done! It holds its shape. Needs sanding and varnishing to make it pretty, but I may proceed with the rest of the design before finishing anything to a nice standard. Was looking at scale lengths to see which I prefer - almost certainly going to go with 25 1/2 scale. Suddenly the decision what to do with the body has become much more urgent! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) Update on the body/neck. I went with a solid 1x4 plank for the though-neck. Its staight and true, and hopefully of sufficient quality to stay that way. Ideally 2x4 would have been better, but it would have been impossible to work with the tools I have access to, but I can double it up where needed. After some careful planing I started cutting into the flexi-ply body and jig sawing the neck: I also have a question. The fretboard is "borrowed" from another guitar I had. When Measuring it up I realised the guitar had not been constructed according to the correct scale length. That is, the bridge was further back than it should have been. When positioning the bridge, should I put it where it should go in theory, or at the same distance as it was in a previous life? Cheers! Edited January 15, 2019 by joshhill67 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 no expert but the position of the hips of the guitar are where it would matter for comfort. that said... I don't think you would even feel a 1/2" less comfortable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, joshhill67 said: I also have a question. The fretboard is "borrowed" from another guitar I had. When Measuring it up I realised the guitar had not been constructed according to the correct scale length. That is, the bridge was further back than it should have been. When positioning the bridge, should I put it where it should go in theory, or at the same distance as it was in a previous life? Cheers! The position of the bridge will be governed by the fret spacing on your borrowed fret board, nominally 2x the distance of the nut to the 12th fret plus a bit. The 'bit' extra is your intonation allowance on the saddles, which will typically push the bridge back further than 2x nut-12th fret, so perhaps this is the longer distance you've noted on the bridge when it was installed on the original guitar? The question of where exactly to position the bridge relative to the theoretical scale length comes up moderately frequently. You can look up some calculators that present some typical values of the the extra 'bit' in the measurements provided you're using certain hardware which takes the thinking component out of the decision (the StewMac fret placement calc comes to mind) . Or do some educated guesstimation to get you in the ballpark that works pretty much every time for any bridge - some discussion on the topic can be found here: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, curtisa said: The position of the bridge will be governed by the fret spacing on your borrowed fret board, nominally 2x the distance of the nut to the 12th fret plus a bit. The 'bit' extra is your intonation allowance on the saddles, which will typically push the bridge back further than 2x nut-12th fret, so perhaps this is the longer distance you've noted on the bridge when it was installed on the original guitar? The question of where exactly to position the bridge relative to the theoretical scale length comes up moderately frequently. You can look up some calculators that present some typical values of the the extra 'bit' in the measurements provided you're using certain hardware which takes the thinking component out of the decision (the StewMac fret placement calc comes to mind) . Or do some educated guesstimation to get you in the ballpark that works pretty much every time for any bridge - some discussion on the topic can be found here: That is exactly it - thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 I would really welcome some advice please folks! I took a little break while waiting for some parts, but am making progress again. I have my bridge, which means I can start working the shape of the body. What I have is this: I think it looks fairly good, although it is only rough. But I have a slight problem. The taper of the fretboard is not the same as the angle needed to go from the end of the fretboard to the bridge. Which creates a problem. What to do on the left side of the neck here where the body is aysmetrical?? Option A is to cut right up close to the fretboard so that it is no longer asymetrical, but then it would have a strance sort of zig zag shape from the neck, to the non-existent pick guard, to the bridge. Option B is to leave it as it is or somehow try and eccentuate the asymetry to make a feature of it. Suggestions would be great... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2019 There is also an option C I suppose... to cut the bridge down and make it so that it fits the existing taper of the fretboard That would perhaps be the best option, but metalwork is hard, and painting the bridge black again after would be difficult. And I would struggle to fit any sort of pickup if I did that... would need to be less than 65mm wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 A gentle "S" curve that is sympathetic to your body outline? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Norris said: A gentle "S" curve that is sympathetic to your body outline? while i think it looks fine as is... and if it where mine I'd probably just leave it as is... I like Norris's suggestion. Another option might be to do some kind of cool carve but follow a taper of some sort. Maybe even just a cove that tapers off. Just spitballing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Hi. Just spotted this thread. Fascinating! I've had an electric cello on the drawing board for years - this has given me some ideas. Ref the body taper - first of all, make absolutely sure that the strings to the saddles are going to give you the right distance from either side of the fretboard. If it doesn't, you may need a bridge with different spacing. Ref the taper itself, I always think curves indicate style and straight lines function. So I'm with @Norris too - I would go extended 'S'. Absolutely not option C - just have a ponder about how little wood you will have left in any case once you have cut the pickup slot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted January 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 9:23 AM, Andyjr1515 said: first of all, make absolutely sure that the strings to the saddles are going to give you the right distance from either side of the fretboard. If it doesn't, you may need a bridge with different spacing. Ah good point! I had assumed the fretboard would be the correct width but you are right, without actually putting the strings on (at least mocking them up seeing as the head is not finished yet) I have no idea! Guess what I am doing next time I have some free time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted February 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2019 Sorry for the radio silence - the build has been progressing slowly but surely: I played it today for the first time and... its okay!! It sounds like a guitar should. It still needs work - the neck thinning down, a knee rest adding, and then lots of finishin My main conundrum at this point, is whether to bother adding electrics? Frankly... I just want the thing finished and playable! And having played it, its plenty loud for me without headphones. I would only need to add electrics to play with distortion (unlikely) or to play to an audience (even less likely, as my playing is awful!) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermikev Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 was gonna comment but forgot to hit send (most important part I've found)! Anywho, looks really great. nice work. My advice about electronics would be: I've often rushed at the end of a project for the same reasons and find that I always regret not taking the time to see it through as I originally planned. A year from now you won't remember how you were in a rush to play it but anything your forgo will stick out to you like a thorn. Esp when something turns out this nice, take your time, and think of the end goal. Obviously won't be offended if you don't take my advice. Electronics are also the best part! congrats on what looks like a great project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 The taper looks good I think not putting a pickup in would be a shame. However, you could always directly wire a pickup to an output jack if you wanted to leave putting volume / tone in until another time? For home playing, you can do any tweaking at the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted February 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: The taper looks good I think not putting a pickup in would be a shame. However, you could always directly wire a pickup to an output jack if you wanted to leave putting volume / tone in until another time? For home playing, you can do any tweaking at the amp. yeah this is also a possibility. So my original plan was to build a small headphone amp into the body. Which I COULD still do, but carving out a hole for it, and making it line up nicely with the outside just seems like so much work for such a small benefit. So maybe a 1/4 inch output would be a better idea. My concern for that was getting the grounding right so I don't electrocute myself when I plug it into an amp! I thought it was pretty simple to begin with, then when i started messing around with my leccy I realised that the strings were grounded too - presumably so that if you touch the strings to the pickup the current doesn't take a shortcut through you because the path of least resistance is through the strings? Anyway - I like messing around with 12v circuits, but I try to leave mains currents well alone Edited February 7, 2019 by joshhill67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, joshhill67 said: yeah this is also a possibility. So my original plan was to build a small headphone amp into the body. Which I COULD still do, but carving out a hole for it, and making it line up nicely with the outside just seems like so much work for such a small benefit. So maybe a 1/4 inch output would be a better idea. My concern for that was getting the grounding right so I don't electrocute myself when I plug it into an amp! I thought it was pretty simple to begin with, then when i started messing around with my leccy I realised that the strings were grounded too - presumably so that if you touch the strings to the pickup the current doesn't take a shortcut through you because the path of least resistance is through the strings? Anyway - I like messing around with 12v circuits, but I try to leave mains currents well alone Grounding the bridge will ground the strings. If you take the bridge off, drill a hole where the bridge plate seats to the jack chamber, pop a wire through with the insulation removed one end for about 15mm. Then splay those bare wires out under where the bridge will sit. Then sandpaper the paint off the underside of the bridge plate where it is going to clamp the bare wires. Then refit the bridge, trapping the bare wires. At the other end of that ground wire, just solder to the ground lug on the jack along with the return wire off the pickup. Then your strings should be fully grounded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshhill67 Posted February 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 God that sounds simpler than building an amp into the body... You, sir, have sold me on this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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