Jehle Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I feel a little silly asking about how to use a block plane since it seems so simple of a tool. I've never had one before and I just invested in two over the weekend, one mid sized and another finger plane. I played around a bit with them and found it a little more difficult to work with than I expected. On the scrap I was practising with, the blade would catch, dig in, and the plane would screetch to a halt. I don't think I'm being heavy handed with it, but maybe I am. Is it supposed to be hard to work or am I just not used to the feel of the tool yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 If the blade catches, you may have it set too deep. Back it off a bit, so it's taking off less material with each pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 If the blade catches, you may have it set too deep. Back it off a bit, so it's taking off less material with each pass. Good idea. I tried to set the blade so that is was just poking out. What's a good rule of thumb for setting the depth of the cut? I'm a total noob with the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Man this is strange feeling to ask questions like this. But there are no supid questions, right? (imagine dunce cap) Okay. When would I want to use a block plane? Should the surface already be pretty smooth? Is the block plane more to refine the perfectly flat surface or could it pretty much take rough sawn timber and level it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=howTo&p=Bu...s/rightNavTools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezerboy Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 and the actual definition, which is slightly confusing compared to above... Definition: [n] a small plane used on end grains of wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Make sure the blade is ultra sharp... use wet and dry paper on a flat surface rather than a sharpening stone. Try 600, then 800, then 1200 grits. Set the blade out slightly, very small amount, hardly anything. Make sure you go with the grain. The grain might be running out towards you, or away from you. Try practising on scrap in both directions to see the difference. Angle your plan slightly, eg: on a 30-45 degree angle, while you cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Okay. When would I want to use a block plane? Should the surface already be pretty smooth? Is the block plane more to refine the perfectly flat surface or could it pretty much take rough sawn timber and level it? Do you have a block plane, or a shooting plane?? Block planes are short, maybe four or five inches long. You can plane a piece of timber at any time, rough or smooth, doesnt matter. Remember, this is what they USED to use to "machine" up the timber in the old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I use it more or less to thin down the body of a guitar, that is, if I want to go from 2" down to 1 3/4" thickness. It has to be done evenly overall while checking with a straightedge. Just the roughing in period then sand with coarse grit and work towards finer grits. If your blade is set too deep you will definitely "chunk out" softer woods like mahogany. Grab a piece of scrap wood, same as what you are working on, and keep setting the depth until the wood comes up in nice curls. I will also use the smaller 4" hand plane on shaping my necks along with spokeshave, rasps and sandpaper. Its just a quick way to remove wood without the noize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Okay. When would I want to use a block plane? Should the surface already be pretty smooth? Is the block plane more to refine the perfectly flat surface or could it pretty much take rough sawn timber and level it? Do you have a block plane, or a shooting plane?? Block planes are short, maybe four or five inches long. You can plane a piece of timber at any time, rough or smooth, doesnt matter. Remember, this is what they USED to use to "machine" up the timber in the old days. Yeah, it's a block plane. Says so right on the box. It's about 6" long or so. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I can't wait to get home and try some more planing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob7 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 jehle....Ive been doing the same thing, and even when i was 99% sure it matched up almost perfectly, so i go glue it up, and then i see how large the space between the boards is......At least i am gonna be puttin a top over it so noone sees the extra spacing in there...I suggest if possible find either a jointer or a belt sander that you can use...It will go MUCH faster and end up much better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 As a rule of thumb, the longer the plane is, the flatter the piece of timber will be. If you want to plane a body join, use a plane thats 10" MINIMUM unless your going to have trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I got the planes to work on the neck that I making. This is my first neck build and all of the sources I've read mention using a plane to smooth out this or that before you glue the fretboard, etc... I've been lucky so far that the body blanks I've glued together didn't need that much truing up before I glued them. So there I was staring at my roughed out neck and wondering how I was going to get it really straight and flat before I dared to glue up. It's close now. I used a long flat board and a long piece of sand paper to get it flat. I would like to make it just a little better with the plane, if I can that is. As it turns out, the fretboard is slightly cupped too. I read back over in Hiscock's book where he clamped the stew out of the fretboard pictured because of the same reason. Looks like I'm not the first person to have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren wilson Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 I could be wrong, but i think a block plane is designed for smaller woodworking projects, and would probably be too short to do an effective job at truing up a really long surface like that. Take a look at the selection of planes at Lee Valley, and you'll see that block planes are very short in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 A block plane isn't really suitable for truing timber - as other users have mentioned you really need a long plane, like a no.7 or 8 jointing plane to do serious levelling. I've jointed 2 tops with a smoothing plane (a no.4) and found it *very* slow to get perfect. For truing neck blanks I use a long flat sanding block, and my smoothing plane. If you run the plane over the surface of the blank you'll leave a nice smooth surface. Then hit it with the sanding block, which will reveal any high spots by leaving them roughened. Plane these down, and repeat until the block is flatter than Belgium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 I read over Brian's tutorial on fixing a warped neck yesterday. It described nearly that same process. Use a flat board and some sand paper to true up the neck blank (with out the fretboard obviously). That worked great and the neck is nice, flat and square now. I have to agree that the block plane is probably not the right tool for me to use. I looked at the angle of the blade and it's much too agressive at around 20 degrees. It's also a cheap plane so I can't adjust that angle at all. I'm temped to make my own wooden plane and use that blade in it (the plane may be wrong, but the blade is a blade and it's quite good). I have a lot of scrap guitar woods around and it would be nice to reuse that wood to make a designer tool. Has anyone made anything out of the scrap guitar woods like this before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Jehle, Have you seen the photo in Melvins book where he's using the plane and this this rolled up, perfectly cut sliver of wood comming out of the top how the hell does he do that? Anyway, I've got a really long plane that I was using for trying to true up my neck blank after laminating. Problem was (except for the muppet holding the plane of course ) that I was going against the grain of the centre laminate, not sure if it makes a difference but the centre piece is zebrawood so has a bit of a wobbly grain too and the plane would dig in. I kept trying to set it up but gave up in the end before I shaved something off myself. The moral to the story - I whipped the blade out and now I've got a really long, square sanding block with a handle. It's also good for squaring because as long as the handle is vertical the bottom of the plane/sanding block is totally horizontal. God bless cocking it up in the fist place because it's the best sanding block I've ever used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 The moral to the story - I whipped the blade out and now I've got a really long, square sanding block with a handle. It's also good for squaring because as long as the handle is vertical the bottom of the plane/sanding block is totally horizontal. God bless cocking it up in the fist place because it's the best sanding block I've ever used. Hey! That's a cool idea. Now I have a metal sanding block and a razor sharp metal hand scraper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Have you seen the photo in Melvins book where he's using the plane and this this rolled up, perfectly cut sliver of wood comming out of the top how the hell does he do that? Re-read the thread, ive posted everything you need to know to get those curly shavings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Have you seen the photo in Melvins book where he's using the plane and this this rolled up, perfectly cut sliver of wood comming out of the top  how the hell does he do that? Re-read the thread, ive posted everything you need to know to get those curly shavings. Yeah, I tried working with the plane last night. Vastly improved performance over my early attempts. My problem was that the blade was out too far, that the angle was too sharp. I found that by barely having the blade out did a world of good. I was able to shave the wood better. I'm still no pro, but at least I feel that I can use the thing now to some degree. I'm better off with sanding at the moment. I'll keep practicing with the plane until I get it right. Thanks a million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmmr Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 btw, using the sanding technique do achieve trueness, what grit paper you guys use and how long (in average) does it take to get a neck blank perfectly flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I would be extremely cautious of using sand paper to flatten necks. Without knowing, you can actually be rounding the neck blank off. You'd be better to learn how to use a plane correctly, and then finish of with a few strokes of the sanding leveller. My leveller is 20" long, and i use 80 grit paper. I havent changed the paper for more than 12 months though, so its quite worn. Yuo need to make the leveller out of something that is dead straight, and wont warp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirapop Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 My problem was that the blade was out too far, that the angle was too sharp. I found that by barely having the blade out did a world of good. I was able to shave the wood better. I'm still no pro, but at least I feel that I can use the thing now to some degree. Hey Bill! Like everyone says, make sure the blade is sharp, and adjust the depth and throat opening to get those fine shavings. If you skew the plane to the direction you're pushing it, you effectively reduce the blade angle. I have a cheap Stanley that I've tuned up and I can get those paper thin (see-through) shavings most of the time. Fine Woodworking has a couple books on planes. They have articles on tweaking block planes and building wooden planes. There's a really cool article about a guy who made a brass soled plane out of plate, by hand. If you're going to go through the trouble of making a wooden plane, you ought to get a better blade to build around. Hock makes thicker blades that are more suited to wooden bodied planes. A few of the mail-order woodworking houses carry them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehle Posted June 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I would be extremely cautious of using sand paper to flatten necks. Without knowing, you can actually be rounding the neck blank off. You'd be better to learn how to use a plane correctly, and then finish of with a few strokes of the sanding leveller. My leveller is 20" long, and i use 80 grit paper. I havent changed the paper for more than 12 months though, so its quite worn. Yuo need to make the leveller out of something that is dead straight, and wont warp. Yep. I already made that mistake. I thought that it may have had something to do with the woods I was using. I have a slightly harder wood (no clue what, I've had it for a year or two) laminated between two sticks of maple. It was more like you said, I unknowingly would rock the blank back and forth and it would round it slightly. I am so glad that I have enough wood to make more than one neck. I have a feeling that I'm going to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I would be extremely cautious of using sand paper to flatten necks. Without knowing, you can actually be rounding the neck blank off. You'd be better to learn how to use a plane correctly, and then finish of with a few strokes of the sanding leveller. My leveller is 20" long, and i use 80 grit paper. I havent changed the paper for more than 12 months though, so its quite worn. Yuo need to make the leveller out of something that is dead straight, and wont warp. Yep. I already made that mistake. I thought that it may have had something to do with the woods I was using. I have a slightly harder wood (no clue what, I've had it for a year or two) laminated between two sticks of maple. It was more like you said, I unknowingly would rock the blank back and forth and it would round it slightly. I am so glad that I have enough wood to make more than one neck. I have a feeling that I'm going to need it. Try sanding "one stroke at a time" rather than "back and forth". Eg: lift the sanding block off the work, and start from the beginning with each stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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