whoofnagle Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Well I just got back from routing the neck cavity for my guitar. Man was I nervous. I took the 1/4" templates I had and transfered them to MDF board before routing. I thought that would allow for more template space (3/4"). It was very helpful. Additionally it allowed me to smooth some of the rough edges on the templaate (by the way -ordered from guitarbuildingtemplates.com). To me the spacing for the neck was just a tad off (greater than 2 3/16"). Well all seemed to go well. No major problems, but am glad it is over. However, I did walk away with a question. I routed to a depth of 5/8" as suggested in readings and the warmoth web site, however, I do not wish to use a pickguard. When the neck is in place there is a 1/8" to 3/16", gap between the body and neck in front of where the neck pickup will go. When I looked at my Am. Std. tele the neck pocket is almost 1/8" deeper than mine, thus the pickguard allows a pretty flush fit with the neck. Do I route deeper? Have others had this problem? By the way the neck is snug. A tighter fit than my fender!! Bill -man am I having fun with this project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Yes you can go deeper just because of that reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoofnagle Posted August 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Great. I did not know if it would mess something else up. Thanks! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoofnagle Posted August 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Okay- I now have another question. By routing out the neck pocket a bit deeper, will there be any problems with using a tradional tele bridge(maybe a gotoh)? Or will I just need to lower my pickups by say 1/8" to accomidate the fact that the neck will sit about 1/8" below where I had originally envisioned.. Thanks for all of your answers. Books are a great way to start, but doing the work and asking more questions is definately the way to learn. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litchfield Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 The action might be a tad high. Depends on the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 However, I did walk away with a question. I routed to a depth of 5/8" as suggested in readings and the warmoth web site, however, I do not wish to use a pickguard. When the neck is in place there is a 1/8" to 3/16", gap between the body and neck in front of where the neck pickup will go. When I looked at my Am. Std. tele the neck pocket is almost 1/8" deeper than mine, thus the pickguard allows a pretty flush fit with the neck. Do I route deeper? Have others had this problem? To me it sounds like you're refering to where the neck is sitting on the body, not the 5/8" depth of the rout, and that the pickguard covers the little bit between the pickup and the neck...this is my understanding from what read, so when asking if you should rout 1/8" deeper, you are refering to routing the neck pocket 1/8" closer to the pickup to eliminate the gap? If you do this you will change the placement of the bridge. This is what I understand when I read your post, maybe I'm not making sence? If you are asking about routing the 5/8" depth deeper, I've never done this, so there may be a problem with the bridge, plus your pup cavities would need to go deeper. If this is the case that's odd that your Fender's neck pocket has a depth of 3/4", unless you measured the pickguard too. I'm cunfused... By the way the neck is snug. A tighter fit than my fender!! I've noticed that with all the instruments I've built too. PS. Am I spelling 'rout' right? Or is it route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I agree with Matt, I'm a little confused too, but nonetheless: 1) That's going to be a KILLER guitar, it looks great so far! (I am even a little jealous!) 2) If you route the pocket forward, like Matt said, you will be moving the placement of the bridge back also. 3) If you route the cavity deeper, you could throw off your saddles. Here's what you need to know: You NEED to have your bridge there before you do anything else. You have to be able to figure and see the height of your bridge saddles. Place your bridge at it's proper location. Slap your neck in place. Take a 4ft rule (if you want to build guitars, you have to have this tool) and lay it on the neck and see where you wind up as far as your strings hitting the saddles. Remember that obviously your strings will ride a bit higher than sitting the rule flat on the frets. If you route your pocket too deep, you may make your string presentation to the bridge so low that you can't adjust your saddles down far enough to compensate, and you just screwed yourself. So either way, whether it was depth or forward movement you were referring to, you really need the bridge you're going to use there right now. PS, as an additional tip, to get more twang (it is a Tele after all) You want your saddles a bit on the high side to make a little more pressure on them and give you a bit more 'bite'. So you definitely don't want your neck sitting too low. Now, if you had a bit more experience, you could bury the neck deeper until it was almost level with the body, but add a very small tilt (thus kicking up the string presentation to the bridge) ...by putting a very slight angle on your neck pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthier Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Slap your neck in place. I like to 'Slap' my necks in place first of all, because I align the neck center with the center of the body, plus the bridge is easier to move IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnarf Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 I've got a question for the guitar I'm building. I'm using a Wilkinson tremolo. Should I cut the neck pocket 5/8 in deep? Also, should I just imitate the shape of the neck pocket on my other guitars, that is, is it okay as long as the neck fits snugly? How thick should the fingerboard be, if it is to lay flush with the body? What I'm really saying, is that I've never seen a good explaination of the issue of the neck pocket. Anybody have some good insight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoofnagle Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Man, I feel like I should hide my head in the sand, but then again this is my first try. The pocket is routed to 5/8" depth (the one I am making). I have not done anything to it. I will leave it as is. I went back and checked my tele, it is a tad deeper than 5/8", maybe my measurement is slightly off, but that still leaves me with what to do about not using a pickguard. If I am looking/measuring correctly w/out a pickguard I have about 3/16" between the body and the overhang of the neck (tele is about the same). While a pickguard is about 1/8" there is a small gap, but the lack of the pickguard looks odd to me. Oh well. Thanks for the advice. Here are some additional pictures. My Webpage And yes no more work until the bridge/pickups are delivered. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoG Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 The key word from that last post is overhang. I think he just is worried about the way it looks on an extended fretboard (that goes beyond the end of the neck), since that is more noticable w/o a pickguard. Is that it? I wouldn't be too concerned, the neck pickup will be right close to that overhang, masking the gap somewhat. And as Drak said, you're doing a great job so far. You are going to have a neck pickup, aren't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoofnagle Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Yes, It is the overhang gap that was an eye sore. Sorry for the confusion. I too think the neck pickup will mask the gap. Thanks for the kind words and help. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 It's actually good that you brought it up, because I think a lot of new guys have the train of thought that you have..'how deep do I route into the body'... ...when it's really all about how you present the strings to the bridge. The body itself is almost an inconsequential bystander to this more important point. But I went thru that too, so I know what's going thru your mind, it's quite normal to think that way at first. How tall your saddles sit (all bridges are a little different in this reguard, thats why measuring any other guitar doesn't really tell you much...that pocket was set up for that neck and that bridge...your neck and bridge may be completely different) , how deep is your neck tongue (it will be slightly deeper if it's got thick finish on it), it's all about presenting the strings to the bridge saddles at the correct height, and that varies from guitar to guitar, so you need to understand that concept, then you'll never get 'thrown' again, be it a Floyd, Tele, Wilkinson, TOM, etc... You need to be able to position the neck in it's pocket, sit the bridge in it's place, and take a bearing with your 4' rule to really get a feel for the particular guitar you're working on. You can figure it all out by drawing it out on full-sized paper too, I don't do it that way, but others do. The only thing I'm trying to get across is to drop the idea that there is a 'proper' depth to route your neck pocket for. It's all relative to your neck, your bridge, your nut, the action you want, etc... 5/8" is a good starting point tho, that's a pretty standard pocket depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcow Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 you're right drak, as a recognized member of the new guy category i conclude this is proving very helpful to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 If your gonna use a standard bridge like Fender uses, then like Drak said 5/8" is the correct depth for the neck pocket. BTW.. the guitar is coming together quite nicely. Good work!! MaTT V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlague Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 i know what you're talking about drak. i went through that in the planning phase of my guitar. (which i'm HOPEFULLY going to really get into soon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 It's not so urgently important when doing a standard Fender style guitar, but these things take on a new importance and meaning when you start doing TOMs, carved tops, Floyds, making guitars with no pickguards and want to sink the neck in deeper. I've -never- used a pickguard on a guitar I've built...ever. So I like to do the 'bury and angle' thing myself on occasion. Once you understand the concept of neck-to-bridge relationship, and you have a 4' rule on hand, you can adjust your neck pocket as needed, whenever you want to. It's opening up a new freedom for you, you're not as freaked out about your neck pocket depth being so critically important depth-wise because you're already aware of what you're looking for beforehand and you're going to make it work for you, not you being a slave to any particular neck pocket depth in particular. I think once a person 'gets' that concept and can make it work for them, they have really jumped up to 'the next level', they have a new concept in their head and have overcome a sort of 'beginner obstacle' mentally. So whenever you look at a neck pocket, you don't just think 'how deep, how deep?'...you look at a neck pocket and go 'where's my bridge and 4' rule?', and you brain is thinking in 'whole' concepts, not 'segmented parts' concepts, because you can't just look at your neck pocket depth without thinking about your bridge at the same time, they are integrally related to each other. It makes a difference. Dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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