I've had it!!!

[tsl602000]

Okay, I've been trying to get a finish on my strat body for two months now and after another disaster I'm really sick of it.

For some reason I'm just not allowed to finish my guitar.

First I tried Polyurethane paint with an electric paint spray gun... the damn thing didn't work.

Then I bought acryl paint in aerosol cans.... it went perfectly... untill I sprayed the second clear coat... it started to burn in (same brand, same paint!!!!!)...another complete strip of the body was required.

A guitar builder suggested me to use nitro cellulose laquer and use a roller (not sure if that's the right word).

I testdrived some ugly left over nitro on another body and it worked out just fine.

Today I got my dark red paint in the mail and rolled it on... guess what? It didn't work... there's spots where the paint just won't stick to the body and it just stays translucent!!!!

Even after 5 coats you could still see the grain very clearly. I guess there has to be something wrong with this damn paint.

So, I had to strip the body again.

I've had it with painting body's. I love building a guitar and I made two great axes, but without a colored body and I hate the natural look.

I'm through and consider to trash all this ****.

[vh-guitarstore.com]

send it to me, ill paint it for you

[LGM Guitars]

send it to me, ill paint it for you

Or......

instead of breaking the forum rules, you COULD offer him some advice

There could be a couple of reasons this is happening tsl.

First, is it a fresh wood body? or at least one you stripped to fresh wood?

If it is to bare wood, many paints have issue with bare wood. Mahogany is an odd one to spray, and so is maple.

The FIRST thing to do with bare wood, is make sure it is clean. If you have been handling it, you have finger oils in it.

Here is what I do to prep a new body, or a stripped one.

I'm going to assume you are at the finish sanding stages.

1. Wear rubber gloves, keep all fingers off of the body at this point, we want it totally clean.

2. Sand the body to 400 grit, then take a sponge, dampen the wood and let it dry, that will raise the grain, then you sand again until it's smooth. I do this twice.

3. Then I take a good wood sealer, and rub it in, let it cure, wipe it off, and finish sand starting with 600, and I go to 1200.

4. (skip this step if you are doing a natural wood body) I take an aerosol can of white laquer primer (because it's easy) and LIGHTLY spray the body, this will show you where any major flaws are, don't worry about trying to fill endgrain, just get a coat on so you can see any major flaws.

5. With your 600 paper, sand off the white, if it doesn't all come off, it's not a huge deal. Then finish with 1200.

6. Next comes the actual, what I consider "painting" stage. I now mount the body on a false neck (still wearing rubber gloves) and go to the booth. I spray 4 to 6 good coats of clear on the raw body, This will probably not look very smooth, but it's ok, we are permanently sealing the wood at this stage.

I don't recommend laquer for this, I recommend poly urethane. If you get runs, it's not big deal, we have to sand the sh*t out of this next. If you don't want to spray poly's (not recommended unless you have proper ventalation and respirators) take your raw body to an automotive shop and tell them you want 6 heavy coats of clear on your body, they will probably do it for about $50.

7. Now that it's cleared and cured, get a hard block, and start sanding again, I start with 280 wet/dry paper. I mix some Ivory hand soap into the water (Ivory is the ONLY soap that is 99.9% oil free, no fragrances or anything) Sand until there are NO shiny spots left, and it is flat, no runs, no sags, just dead flat, you do want to be careful on edges, because you don't want to go through to the wood again. I usually take this clear coat to 600 grit wet.

8. Now you can shoot your first coat of primer on the body. Once poly is cured, you can spray almost anything you want on it, you won't hurt it, and it will bond as long as you are 600 grit roughness, even 400 would be ok.

9. At this point, start using ALL product specific paint, in otherwords, if you are spraying laquer paints, spray laquer primer, if you are using enamels, use enamel primer.

10. When you spray your first coat of primer (paint is the same) spray your very first coat as a dust coat. Then, as soon as you're done putting on your dust coat, spray a wet coat, not heavy, but full coverage, at this point, runs aren't the end of the world, but we want to avoid them if possible.

11. Sand your primer with 400 or 600 grit to knock down any dust you got in it.

12. Now you can spray your first color coats. Spray a dust coat (this just helps the paint bond) and then spray your wet coats. If you are using an automotive base coat, you should wait about 10 minutes between coats, if laquers, try to spray until it's even looking, or, wait 24 hours between coats.

13. Now, if there is any dust, if they are big pieces, you can sand them out, but, if it's a metallic, or neon, or translucent paint, I'd say don't sand unless absolutely necessary. You will probably have to touch the color coat up. This sucks in metallics, or neons, or anything that is poor covering paints like neons or translucents.

14. Now you are ready to clear. I personally hate laquer, but it's basically sprayed the same as poly, with one exception, poly's require a 25 to 35 minute flash time between coats, laquers either need to be sprayed into very fresh (as in keep spraying) coats, or given 24 to 48 hours between coats. I spray on 6 coats of clear after my color.

15. Once you have 6 coats of clear (I would actually recommend 10 coats if you're spraying laquer as it shrinks really badly) Sand it out again, like you did with the seal coats. Sand it until there are NO shiny spots again. And it's flat, no runs, no sags, no dust spots. Take it to 600 grit.

16. Now I spray my final clear, usually another 4 to 6 coats depending on how much I had to take off during sanding. Try your BEST to get no runs, and no sags at this stage, but make sure you have even coverage.

17. Now, let it fully cure, and you are ready to sand out and polish

Here is a body after final clear, before any polishing.

here is a guitar after final polishing.

Here is a close up of the body of that same guitar.

:note, the white specks are dust, I hate taking pics of black LOL!!!!

[jai]

or, to a greater extent, take a page from Cledus Judd and "throw this damn guitar in the laaaaaake."

[westhemann]

once again lgm.you are too good.i am so jealous.

[vh-guitarstore.com]

i didnt think offering to paint the guitar for free was breaking any rules

if you switched to polyester you would cut your schedule down to a 1/4 of all that...polyester rules

[tsl602000]

VH-guitarstore, thanks for your offer! Unfortunately would shiping a body back and forth over the ocean cost me an arm and a leg (I'm located in Holland). However, I really appreciate your offer!

LGM guitars, thanks for your extensive reply. See, the thing is that it looks like bad luck is chasing my tail whenever I attempt to finish my body.

I tried about four different ways of finisishing and at some point something goes horribly wrong.

I use alder bodies and the wood preparing doesn't seems to be much of a problem. I used the same nitro cellulose laquer on another body for practise and that went just fine.

You wrote that when poly is cured, you can put on anything on it... I still have some polyurethane red paint that I could use as a primer for the nitro red that I have.

Would that work?

Can I use the polyurethane over a nitro sanding sealer?.

Btw, I don't spray, but roll the paint on.

Thanks,

Coen

[tsl602000]

One more question.

Can/should I use naphta to clean my body prior to painting?

[_FR0D0]

the only wood sealers you could find in my country are nitro ones. Is this ok, or this push me to use only nitro to finish my guitars?

[LGM Guitars]

i didnt think offering to paint the guitar for free was breaking any rules

if you switched to polyester you would cut your schedule down to a 1/4 of all that...polyester rules

Well, I don't know what "polyester" you are using, Polyester resin is a very yellow resin used in fiberglassing. Poly Urethane is a 2 or 3 part automotive finish. I use Poly Urethane, my schedule takes all of 4 hours to prep and that includes flash time between coats on the sealing part of it.

you never stated for free, you just said send it to me, I'll paint it.

[tsl602000]

I just got an email from my parts/paint supplier. he stated that he made an error mixing the color. There's not enough (now forgive me for this description, but I don't know the right word for that...:-) stuff in the laquer that makes the color....

[vh-guitarstore.com]

im using the same polyester that every guitar company, except gibson, uses.....

your schedule has a lot of sanding and a lot of coats and a lot of sanding between coats.....you may want to upgrade your gun, you should be able to lay down urethane and epoxy primer(which is also the sealent) without any sanding...allthough a lot of people scuff sand reall quick with 1000 grit, but you really dont need to as long as you keep going

with polyester, the schedule is polyester sanding sealer, sand to 400, paint, clear(which is done in sages every 15 minutes, starting with a tack coat and ending with a 4 th or 5th flow coat)...it flows out pretty smooth...then wetsand and buff.....it produces an indestructable clear coat thats resistant to scratches

polyester cures anywhere from a few hours to a day depending on temp.....pot life is about 40 minutes....the best thing about polyester is you dont have to worry about anything, no fisheyes, craters, peel, fogging whatever...it pretty much bonds with everything...but you do have to have the right equipment and know how to use it....and there will be a learning process at first where it seems impossible

[Guest AlexVDL]

I just got an email from my parts/paint supplier. he stated that he made an error mixing the color. There's not enough (now forgive me for this description, but I don't know the right word for that...:-) stuff in the laquer that makes the color....

I think the word you're looking for is pigment???

[LGM Guitars]

well the guns I have are top line, and you can see in the picture of the blue guitar that my poly lays out dead flat, but all paints flow, and you can get some build up around edges. If you don't sand those out flat, even though they blend, they look poor IMO.

15 minutes to 30 minutes is flash for poly dependant on the brand. It's dry to touch in about 3 hours, but I like to wait at least overnight before polishing. Pot life on PPG poly urethane (which I am using) is approximately 6 hours.

If you re-read my schedule, it's not that much sanding, and I could cut the number of coats in half, but I like the way I do it, I've had NO complaints, and I am confident in my work. I'll put one of my finishes up against anyone.

[vh-guitarstore.com]

yeah i like that blueish one....thats kinda neat finish....hey i was just explaining polyester....in my world, time is money and i hate sanding....sometimes i combine the 2; useing polyester sanding sealer(which gives a glass smooth finish) urethene paint and then polyester clear....but again, the only time i sand is at the sanding sealer stage....there isnt a reason to any other time..the only hard part with polyester is well first getting used to shooting it and then at the buffing stage....cuz once its catalyzed, its like a rock.....jackson uses a stroke sander on theirs, which is over the top

[_FR0D0]

how do I block sand a carved top gtr?

[tsl602000]

I got some poly-urethane paint and was wondering if I can use nitro-cellulose clear laquer over poly-urethane color laquer.

I tried some nitro and poly-urethane on a piece of scrpawood and nothing weird happened sofar....

Coen

[vh-guitarstore.com]

i dunno about that, i think thats a no no....but someone else may know for sure, i dont remember...youre better off using urethene clear, its way better than lacquer

[soapbarstrat]

How to clean wood prior to painting :

1- Thinner ( Lacquer thinner or Naptha)

2-Alcohol

3-Mineral Spirits

4- Amonia mixed with water

Use 'em in that order. Each removes something the previous substance doesn't always remove.

I learned this from Dan Erlewine years ago and I keep it posted on my shop wall the same as he did/does.

If anyone knows of a better procedure, I'm all ears, although I think no finish, or a light oil finish beats the hell out of paint any day. No finish on a neck can cause problems, but I think it's ok on a body (yeah, it'll get dirty, but no one ever said Rock 'n' roll is supposed to be squeaky clean)

Your fingers leave oil behind when you touch something, so watch out for that too.

[_FR0D0]

How to clean wood prior to painting :

1- Thinner ( Lacquer thinner or Naptha)

2-Alcohol

3-Mineral Spirits

4- Amonia mixed with water

Use 'em in that order. Each removes something the previous substance doesn't always remove.

I learned this from Dan Erlewine years ago and I keep it posted on my shop wall the same as he did/does.

If anyone knows of a better procedure, I'm all ears, although I think no finish, or a light oil finish beats the hell out of paint any day. No finish on a neck can cause problems, but I think it's ok on a body (yeah, it'll get dirty, but no one ever said Rock 'n' roll is supposed to be squeaky clean)

Your fingers leave oil behind when you touch something, so watch out for that too.

what is mineral spirits, I mean I live in a spanish talking country and don't know the equivalent in my local market.

thnx

[Brian]

Mineral Spirits would be concidered a medium strength solvent more commonly used to thin out paint or clean paint brushes

[tsl602000]

update..

I finally got the color coats AND the clear coats on.... I guess it needs a week of time time before I can start sanding and polishing...

Phew....