skibum5545 Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 (edited) Well, here's my dilemma. I just received a fairly substantial sum of money for my birthday, and I intend to upgrade my rig. Keep in mind, I am currently using a Kustom KBA-30 30 watt practice amp-- yeah, that's my rig -- and so anything is an upgrade from there! I don't want to spend more than $500 dollars out of pocket, and I can probably get $60 trade in on my current amp. I prefer tube, but I have no idea if there are any tube amps within that range. I have looked at some of Behringer's bass amps, such as the BX 600 and BX 1200, and I've been impressed with the sound of the 600, and I've never actually tried a 1200. I absolutely adore some of the mesa/boogie's I've played, but until I'm ready to spend that much money that'll only be a special occasion when I go to Guitar Center. I have heard about an amp by Mesa called the Walkabout Scout, but have failed to find any information about it as to quality or, more importantly, price (seeing as anything by Mesa should meet my standards)-- anyone know anything? So, any brands or specific amps I should consider for the price range? Thanks for the help! Edited October 9, 2004 by skibum5545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Two pieces of advice, probably not what you want to hear, but what I've learned the hard way: First, don't ever buy another bass combo amp - not only are they always under-powered, but they're generally too small to work well as speaker cabinets also, and above all, there's no way to upgrade them with a better cabinet without selling them. Unless you're playing acoustic jazz or you're strictly a bedroom/garage rocker, a combo isn't going to do it. Second, you're going to need 5 or 6 times as much power as the guitar players need, because not only are you moving more air, but you also can't just turn everything wide open and hard-clip the output without sounding like Hell and blowing speakers. 250wrms is about the minimum you need to compete with 50 watt half-stacks. If you like the Behringer stuff, you shold be able to pick up a BX3000T (or something similar) for about $200, which will leave you about 3 bills for a decent used 4-10 cabinet - you can always add a second cabinet or replace the head later. My full stage rig is powered by a 1200 watt (bridged) JBL/Urei power amp (hey, I'm playing with a maniac who runs a Triaxis with a 2:90 for power), but I keep a Hartke 3500 (250 watts) and a lightweight 4-10 at home for pickup gigs and jam sessions, and it does fine competing with 50 watt Marshalls, Fenders and Peaveys. Whatever you decide to do, do it pretty soon - even with the economy down and the election still undecided, "Christmas inflation" is going to start driving equipment prices up very shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 (edited) If you want tube, you can score very sweet deals on peavey alpha tube bass heads, its got 160 watts output by using 6 6L6GC tubes, but I bet if you changed those tubes to 6550's or the equivilant, you could get ALOT more output out of it. But it might need a new output tranny, or it might just need somthing as simple as a rebias. They have been described as being a lot like the mesa boogie 400 bass heads, with less wattage, so you can get a bit of more grind and thump outta it at more manageable volumes not saying it anit loud, because it is. As for prices, I have been offered one for £160 and when reading up on it, I noticed that many of the reviewers payed less than $300 for it. It seems like a worth while buy to me. PS if you are looking for super clean, pristien bass sounds, I wouldn't look at this, but it sounds killer any way, and you can get a really nice sound out of it. Edited October 9, 2004 by rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 look into trace elliot heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarMaestro Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Forget about the money and about other peoples advice concerning the sound of an amp. While everyone here is right about the wattage you need for a good bass amp and that most combos don't cut it, it's still a matter of taste which sound you like and which not. In my opinion the two best sounding bass amps are the tube preamp heads + matching cabinets from Ampeg and most SWR models. There is a reason why a huge chunk of proffesionall bass players are customers of these companies. Check them out, you might like them. BUT: Buy the amp that gives you the sound YOU want to hear and buy something with enough watts to cut through in rehearsals and live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 (edited) Thanks for all the replies, guys! Just to clarify, I'm still a "drummer's basement" kind of player. Basically what this means to me is I could do a 2x12, but a 4x12 gets kind of big to carry up and down the stairs all the time. However, I'll price out some of these suggestions. Thanks again for all the help! PS What do y'all know about Gallien-Krueger? It seems like an affordable option http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass...ase_pid/482584/ Edited October 9, 2004 by skibum5545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I played a G/K (RB250? - something like that) for about 6 months some years ago - it sounded very nice, but didn't have enough power for my application at the time. They are definitely worth a listen! And GuitarMaestro makes a good point, even though he appears to think you should ignore everyone's advice except his . SWR makes great gear, but it's expensive, and Ampeg's stuff is classic, but it's costly, heavy, and always sounds like an Ampeg (that's not a bad thing - the B15 defined pop music bass for years). Then there's Ashdown, Demeter, Polytone, and several other brands that are superb, but they're all way out of your budget as I understand it. That's OK, I don't think most of us are in a position to forget about the money - I can't afford an Interstellar Overdrive myself. Spend as much time as you can playing everything in your price range, and decide what sounds best to you. Alternatively, if your amp has an extension speaker output, simply adding a cabinet might sweeten things up enough to make you happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Moon Guitars Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 SWR makes awesome Bass amps. The combo amps can also be expanded by adding an extension cabinet. THe price is not bad either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 I played a G/K (RB250? - something like that) for about 6 months some years ago - it sounded very nice, but didn't have enough power for my application at the time. They are definitely worth a listen! 250RB, actually. When you say it didn't have enough power, what were you trying to compete with? What size hall were you trying to fill? All that. It's one of the low end (low power, low price) models and it's square in my price range. 125W RMS @8 ohms, I think. It looks promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratDudeDan Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 SWR makes awesome Bass amps. The combo amps can also be expanded by adding an extension cabinet. THe price is not bad either. i must disagree with you on your opinion. not to say that SWR don't sound good to you, but i've played through lots of amps, and SWR are probably the worst or near worst amps i've played through. if you're looking for strictly "bang-for-the-buck" style amperage, look at Peavey's NitroBass and FireBass lines. the firebass isn't much, but the price reflects it tenfold. i've been saving for a NitroBass 1x15" combo for a little while now. i believe 300w RMS, 1x15" will run you about $400-700, cheaper if you find one "badly" used. through testing, i've grown to just love the sound of that with a GK or Hartke 2x10" ext. cab on top of it. incredible punch, and enough power to shake the floorboards a wee bit, unless they're loose or like, really hardcore held in place or something. then you could either like, break them or do nothing... anywho... Peavey's amp combos are decent. if you're looking for a stack setup, look at GK's RB240-II w/ a 2x10 + 1x15 cab. that whole rig will run you just over $1000, but even if you buy it in pieces one at a time, it'll sound great no matter what. you could also get the RB240-II 1x15" combo for around $600 i believe, then just save up for the 2x10" combo. beautiful sounding amp, and really has a powerful output for only 240w. my bass player's $.02, which i think is worth a slight bit more than a guitarist's $.02. it's kinda like going from US to Canada... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 ...what were you trying to compete with? Two hyper-macho shredheads with Drool Rectumfrier stacks - we were so loud, we had to mike the drummer's cymbals! Yeah , it should be plenty for your current circumstances and beyond, if you like the sound of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 This is from a guitar player, so take it FWIW....but I seem to be missing something somewhere. Why the emphasis on volume? Every band I've played with has had at least a rudimentary PA system (as small as 8 channels, more normally 16...) with at least 2 speaker cabs + 1 sub-woofer (more normally 4+2). And the general rule of thumb has always been to try to keep the stage volume as low as possible (just enough to hear over the drummer) and thereby have much more control on sound via the mixer levels (coming out of the PA). So the bass players I've played with have generally run 2 feeds to the board, one via a direct box for the low-end foundation and (sometimes) one miked feed for thump-crunch-pop (e.g. the 'high-end' for bass players). The amp doubles as the on-stage instrument monitor, but the on-stage amp level never gets so loud that you need to match anything more than the drummer (so long as everyone is trying to keep themselves similarly low in volume). In small rooms we'd sometimes use a drum shield to help keep the stage volume low. The idea is that the sound guy has much more flexibility to adjust levels (and sound quality to the audience) if the stage volume is at a minimum. So I really don't see the need for brain-jelling volume from an amp; I'd go more for sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 ...the on-stage amp level never gets so loud that you need to match anything more than the drummer (so long as everyone is trying to keep themselves similarly low in volume)... You've hit the nail on the head - how many guitarists do you know that are willing to play quietly? In my experience, with a few exceptions, if it "goes to 11", that's where it ends up. I've run sound often enough to know that most guitarists won't turn down even when it's in their best interest to do so, regardless of how many monitors you pump at them, so unless you have stage monitors that can handle the bass as well as guitars, vocals, etc., you're gonna need a bass amp that can compete with whatever sound level is set by the guitarists. So, keeping in mind that most bass amps sound less than ideal when pushed to their limits, and that bass reproduction takes a great deal more power than guitar, power levels are nearly as important to tone as the nature of the amp itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespresence Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Ahhhhhhhhhhh, opinions....we have have them and we're all full of.......you know the rest! I agree with strat dude dan. Peavey makes a killer combo and with a 2x10 you can play most anywhere and not break your back getting it there. I play a Peavey 115 Combo with a 2x10 and a 3" horn. When I want more bass I pull the 2x10 and plug in my 4x10 or my 4x12. It moves enough air to piss off most guitar players and keeps the drummer happy because he WANTS to hear the bass as much as I want to hear his kick and snare. I paid a little over $500 for my Peavey and $100 for the 2x10 - It's a Vidsonix - cheap price but it has held up to every day playing for a year and is still going strong. The 4x10 and 4x12 I picked up used and both for well under $200. The 4x10 is a Sonic guitar cab with 4 Celestions in it and sounds great playing bass It doesn't take a lot of money to get a good setup and the options are endless. Head + Cab, combo + cab, etc..... My 2 cents is to decide on a budget, go to the store with YOUR bass and play every combination of amp and cab and combo and extension cab they have in your budget. Let your ears tell you what to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 ...the on-stage amp level never gets so loud that you need to match anything more than the drummer (so long as everyone is trying to keep themselves similarly low in volume)... You've hit the nail on the head - how many guitarists do you know that are willing to play quietly? Yeah, I know what you mean. It mostly comes from wanting a certain amount of controlled feedback that you can draw on when needed, but that can usually be dialed in without overwhelming the stage volume. More guitar players need to listen to the whole mix, instead of just listening to themselves within the mix (if you get my drift). If you keep turning your amp up, then the sound guy keeps having to lower your level on the board, but he can't go lower than 0. When you reach that point, the mix really sounds like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Man!! You'd be a joy to run sound for! I can't tell you how often we've had to mute everything in the mix but vocals at club gigs because the stage volume was all the room could stand. I sure wish more people were aware enough to understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Well, I took the leap today. I went down to guitar center today and bought a used Hartke 350W tube/solid state head and a used GK Backline 410 4x10 cab. This thing CRANKS! And, it sounds good to boot. built in 10 band graphic EQ with cool LEDs on each slider, a built-in compressor, and individual gain knobs for the tube side and the solid state side. It's everything and more than I expected, and for well within my price range. The only problem: it wouldn't fit in my car. My mom had to come with a larger car to pick up the cab. Thanks for all the help guys; you really cut the time it took to try stuff out down, and now I have the best bass rig I could have hoped for, barring perhaps a Mesa Boogie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_in_Texas Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 I have 2 bass cabs for sale if you are interested.... 1 - Peavey BX1x15 1 - Peavey 4x10 I want $350.00 for both of them (plus shipping if you are not in Texas) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Maybe you missed the part where i said I went down to guitar center today and bought a used Hartke 350W tube/solid state head and a used GK Backline 410 4x10 cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespresence Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I was wondering how that Hartke sounded.....I almost bought the 3500 last week with a Hartke 4x10 but the Hartke cabs have too much punch for me. I like the way they sound it just doesn't fit my style of playing. I ended up going with an Ampeg B2R with an Ampeg 4x10HLF. It should be in Wednesday. I picked up a Fender 115 Pro EXT Saturday for the bottom. I went with the Fender because it has the Eminence 15 in it, the same thing my Peavey had. It actually sounds better than the Peavey though because it has an adjustable horn output on it and I can dig up a bit more mid on the Fender. I can't wait to hear it with the Ampeg. Glad to hear you like your new rig......now go play!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I'm very impressed with the Hartke, as it turns out. It's very clear and punchy, with a very "sweet" tone to it; it's very versatile too. I wasn't impressed by the Ampegs TBH. They struck me as muddy and bland. But hey, to each his own! By the way, I used it with my band earlier this evening; it cuts through the mix nicely while retaining its clarity and tone. Getting it into my Honda Insight was rather interesting, though. It was too big for the trunk, and I had to really wrestle it into the passenger seat. Maybe I'll pick up a cheap 1x12 for practice purposes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basey Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I used to have a hartke 3500. I really liked it. It has a good preamp section, and a lot of punch. I replaced the 12ax7 with a groove tube ecc83 and it sounded noticably warmer. The only problem I had with it was when I plugged either my SansAmp or Bass Pod into the power amp section it "colored" the tone. So I ended up going with a straight stereo power amp. the hartke was a great amp though, durable as *&^% The funny thing was, I drove to chicago to try out and buy the SWR 4004 stack for around a $1000. (I was not impressed at all) I ended up buying the 3500 for about $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespresence Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Man, now you guys have me wondering if I should have got the 3500 with the Ampeg cab.....I was real close to doing that. I did go with the Fender 15 because the Ampeg 15 just didn't do it for me. Oh, well, I can always buy the 3500 and sell the B2R........ Getting it into my Honda Insight was rather interesting, though. It was too big for the trunk, and I had to really wrestle it into the passenger seat. When I bought a new vehicle this summer I took a tape measure with and made sure my amp, cabs and stand up bass would all fit in it (not at the same time). I think the dealer thought I was a little nuts (I am!!). I ended up with the Rav4....fits everything nicely if you take out the seats. My seats have been in only twice in the 4 or 5 months I've owned it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_in_Texas Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Maybe you missed the part where i said I went down to guitar center today and bought a used Hartke 350W tube/solid state head and a used GK Backline 410 4x10 cab. oops... sorry never mind then \m/ enjoy the new rig..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I replaced the 12ax7 with a groove tube ecc83 and it sounded noticably warmer. Excuse my ignorance, but what does that mean? If I were to do that (once I understand what the &$%# you're talking about) what would it cost, and how would I do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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