Paul Marossy Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 I just visited the Novax website. They have a very interesting fanned fret system, which looks really exaggerated on a bass guitar. Anyhow, has anyone ever played one of these guitars or made a neck using this system? I am also wondering how this compares to the Buzz Feiten tuning system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlague Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 correct me if i'm wrong on anything. fanned frets are nothing like a buzz feiten system. having fanned frets simply allows you to have a shorter scale length on your treble strings (so you can tune them higher) and a longer scale length on bass strings (so you can tune them lower while maintaining tension). i've never seen fanned frets on anything less than an 8 string guitar. on 6 and 7 stringers, it's just not necissary. only if you're wanting to hit a low F# or a high A (or both ) do you really need fanned frets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Their claim is that you get a better tuned instrument with the fanned frets, just like the Buzz Feiten system. Their approach is a little bit different due to a different philosophy. I was just wondering if the end result is more or less the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 I believe it is similar to the Feiten tuning system. His system makes all frets be off by the exact same amount. The fanned frets let each string have it's own perfect scale length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACSpike Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 There I tons of threads on the subject here already, but I love talking about the concepts. I like to think of it like this: Feiten is fixing the problem in a standard guitar design where notes are too sharp because of the increased tension of the depressed string. Novak is fixing the problem where strings at different tensions have different harmonic content. Adjusting the length across the fretboard balances the tension and therefore the harmonic content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) The Novax system involves a separate scale length for each string, ie. each an independent intonation system. The standard guitar setup involves only 1 scale length making the intonation of strings dependent on each other. We know this system of intonation is not perfect for that very reason. It will always be a little bit "off". But the fanned fret system is just a little closer to perfect. I'm tempted to make one but won't until I've actually tuned and played a fanned fret guitar, just to see if I like it. Edited November 18, 2004 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracWell Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 I like the fanned frets alot, just a little awkard to play at first, but you get used to it. Hence why I'm building a 7-string with fanned frets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hmm... interesting stuff. I know with the Buzz Feiten system, the nut is moved approx. 2mm closer to the bridge and then there has to be some special adjustment of the intonation. I think that the Novak system might be a little more sophisticated, though. I'm wondering how you would even calculate the placement of the frets, or how you even play a guitar with that fret system. It would be really weird going to that after playing 15 years or so with a conventional guitar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 (edited) Well, if you are realy interested...heres how its done. You basically set up the scale lengths for the 2 outside strings (high and low E on a 6 string) and draw your frets across from one side to the other. The intermediate scale lengths for the middle four strings just come naturally, the fret positions don't have to be calculated. http://www.doolinguitars.com/articles/novax/ Edited November 18, 2004 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Thanks for the info. That's pretty cool that you made your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Thanks for the info. That's pretty cool that you made your own Nope, thats not mine, I did all the research a long time ago and kept the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Oh, I see. I sure would like to try one of those out and see if I could handle it or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 It says on that site that the fretboard was allready tapered to its final size, but would that nock the scales off slightly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACSpike Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Yes, the high string would be slightly longer than the scale of that fretboard edge and the low string would be slightly shorter. But the ratios for fret placement are still preserved so it plays in tune. I worked through the multiscaled fretboard math a while back and wrote a calculator but it makes you specify the scale of the strings not the fretboard edges. I don't want to be dissagreeable or repeat myself too much but the novax system (and systems like it) address tension and harmonic content not intonation like the Feiten system does. There isn't anything to stop you from using the two systems together to produce a properly tensioned guitar that plays in tune. I should say I haven't touched either system in real life, but I have spent a lot of time reading patents and solving equations related to the subjects. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think "intonation" is the right word to use when talking about the novax system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 That would be very interesting to combine the fanned frets system with the Buzz Feiten system... Getting the intonation set properly seems like it would be challenging, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACSpike Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 I think I'll have to check out the uspto and do some more reading on the Feiten system. Maybe I can make a Feiten calculator. I'm sure it boils down to a few simple formulas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Damn misleading subject titles. I was hoping this guy was so good, he wanted to mount a computer fan on the neck to cool down the frets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 (edited) Damn misleading subject titles. I was hoping this guy was so good, he wanted to mount a computer fan on the neck to cool down the frets LOL. Well, I have put fans in all my amps... (that is if you are referring to me) Edited November 19, 2004 by Paul Marossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddgman2001 Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 I don't want to be dissagreeable or repeat myself too much but the novax system (and systems like it) address tension and harmonic content not intonation like the Feiten system does. There isn't anything to stop you from using the two systems together to produce a properly tensioned guitar that plays in tune. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think "intonation" is the right word to use when talking about the novax system. You are correct. The Novax system is more about equalizing tone and tension among the strings. Additionally it provides an opportunity to have the warm and creamy, easy to bend treble strings of a Les Paul and the bright, spanky and more pitch stable bass strings of a Strat on one guitar. Any other parallel fret scale length claiming to do this will be a compromise between the two. If there is an improvement to intonation it is only if the bass strings are of a longer scale. In this case, the harmonics will be closer in tune and you will be able to more accurately set the intonation. This is completely different than the Feiten system. The Feiten system kicks ass in it's own way. For anyone who thinks - as I once did - that the fanned fret system would be hard to get used to, don't worry, it's not. Close your eyes and play one. You will not notice anything different about the fret placement. Hard to believe but true. Understandably, everyone who has never tried them says the same thing - "I don't know if I'd be able to play them". If you do any amount of research into the system you will find that everyone who tries them says how easy they are to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 I hadn't even considered string bending. Hard to visualize how that works with a fret going off at an angle... I'm just going to have see if anyone here in town has an example for me to try. (Probably not, but I can always dream) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 I personally don't see much reason to combine the two systems-- just use a zero fret and most of your intonation problems will be minimized; and use the fanned system for the tension and ergonomic benefits. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammy Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 I hadn't even considered string bending. Hard to visualize how that works with a fret going off at an angle... I can imagine you bending the string, therefore tension becoming greater (normally would increase the pitch) but then due to the fanned frets the scale length would increase, couteracting the increased tension You would have to bend the right way, at a certain point on the board (if it would work at all). Still would be cool to do a huge bend and the note stay the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddgman2001 Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Bending in the direction of the fret incline towards the bridge gets you to pitch with less effort. Bending in the other direction means you have to bend a little farther. It's actually pretty subtle and if you don't think about it, you automatically correct. Regarding the Buzz Feiten system and zero frets. I was a non-believer until I got off my arse and tried it and it is amazing. If you've got any kind of ear at all you WILL hear a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted November 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 I actually could see how fanned frets could make string bending easier the way y'all explained it. From my research, I am convinced that the Buzz Feiten works, and well. I also wonder why more guitar manufacturers don't use a zero fret... I mean it's not as sophisticated as the Buzz Feiten system, but it would go a long ways towards helping get better intonation, I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octavedoctor Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I think I'll have to check out the uspto and do some more reading on the Feiten system. Maybe I can make a Feiten calculator. I'm sure it boils down to a few simple formulas. What you really need to read about is the history of temperament and harmony and some basic physics. This is what Buzz didn't do when he was formulating his "system" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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