Heat Guns Just Sound Like A Bad Idea

[robbie_rnfr]

I am seeing a lot people talking in this section about refinishing and heat guns. Especially with heavier poly-based finishes. Reading this has left me almost wanting to use the shocked looking emotocon! Several of these postings have left me scared. Unless you don't care about the instrument, safety or health, go on, torch that axe! Leave a couple burn marks just to show all how hot your fret work is. From a health point of view, you are burning some very, very nasty plastic. The fumes from that are much more toxic and lingering than the solvents of strippers and lacquers. I would take a chemical burn from a caustic that I can wash off after contact than a heat blister any day! A heat gun around finishing supplies is just flat out dangerous! Let alone seasoned wood, sawdust and plastics. I have yet to see an open, well ventilated guitar repair shop/space for doing good, safe refinish work. And for an object that you are bothering to put the time into refinishing, the idea of putting anything related to fire near it's surface seems really bad. Fire can have a mind of its own. I would never think that just because I put the burn in the wood means that I can remove it. Doing good finishing/refinishing is worth taking time and care not just for the instrument, but for those doing the work. Slow and steady is always gonna win this race.

[Saber]

I am seeing a lot people talking in this section about refinishing and heat guns... Unless you don't care about the instrument, safety or health, go on, torch that axe!

←

You ARE aware that there's a big difference between a heat gun and an open-flame torch, are you?

[AlGeeEater]

I am seeing a lot people talking in this section about refinishing and heat guns... Unless you don't care about the instrument, safety or health, go on, torch that axe!

←

You ARE aware that there's a big difference between a heat gun and an open-flame torch, are you?

←

No, hes not. A heat gun is basically a gun that shoots out very high temp. heat. You may be thinking of a propane torch gun or something.

Propane is used for burnt finishes, hence the fire

[Southpa]

I've used a heat gun on numerous occasions and haven't suffered any ill effects, ruined guitars etc. I've encountered some finishes up to 1/8" thick which makes it necessary. I've also had good success with chemical strippers, but a finish that thick could get quite messy. A heat gun, used properly, does a dandy job. All you need to do is soften the finish enough to roll it off with a putty knife or scraper. But of course, there are limits, don't get greedy and try to soften things up too much or too fast. Btw, I'm referring to the kind that blows hot air, not open flame or radiant heat guns.

[robbie_rnfr]

I have seen electric induction "heat guns" start fires and burn wood. Even at low settings. Heat causes things to burn, not just open flame.

[Dugz Ink]

All you need to do is soften the finish enough to roll it off with a putty knife or scraper. But of course, there are limits, don't get greedy and try to soften things up too much or too fast.

There's the key.

Excessive heat, regardless of whether it's generated by controlled electrical resistance or an open flame, can cause a wide variety of bad situations. And in some ways, the open flame can be safer; it burns off fumes before they accumulate. A fool who uses a heat gun the wrong way can create a nice little cloud of potentially volitile fumes that don't ignite until they're thick enough to turn their t-shirt into a crusty film that is burned onto their skin.

However, when used properly, they can be used safely to heat certain types of finish until it is soft enough to be scraped off... without dangerous side effects. But the user has to be smarter than the heat gun.

D~s

[westhemann]

But the user has to be smarter than the heat gun.

exactly.apparently some guys are only smarter than sandpaper.you really mean to come on here and tell experienced refinishers that a heatgun is a bad idea?

a heatgun is MADE to remove finishes.

Slow and steady is always gonna win this race.

mmm hmmm.

Leave a couple burn marks just to show all how hot your fret work is.

what the hell are you talking about?refinishing or refretting?

The fumes from that are much more toxic and lingering than the solvents of strippers and lacquers.

may i have a link to the MSDS sheet that backs up that statement?

I have yet to see an open, well ventilated guitar repair shop/space for doing good, safe refinish work.

well then maybe you are taking refinishing tips from the wrong people

I would never think that just because I put the burn in the wood means that I can remove it.

okay?whatever dude...

[BJPUC]

LMAO!!!!!!!

[thedoctor]

Wes, some people can handle tools properly and some can't stack blocks without OSHA's guidance. Natural selection, if you know what I mean. NOW a "lol"? I think I'm getting the hang of this!

[Devon Headen]

I'm gonna have to go with Wes here. I try not to get angry online but this is my pet peeve. It really pisses me off when someone (who obviously has no idea what they're talking about) tells me that what I've done several times successfully won't work for numerous reasons. Especially when MANY sources are readily available that tell you how well it works. As Wes mentioned heat guns are MADE TO REMOVE FINISHES. Read the box. I'm gonna shut up before I get myself more angry thinking about it. This is why I hate internet anonimity.

[westhemann]

anonimity.

anonymity

[Devon Headen]

I knew something didn't look right. At least I have the excuse of just coming in from an 11 hour day

[Maiden69]

Whats up with this one post people, they come, start a thread with no knowledge of what they are talking about and then we come and waste our time explaining why, when and how and they don't even care or are to scare to admit that they just did a bubu posting it.

[thedoctor]

Maiden, they thrive on the response. Light the fuse and stand back. BOOM!

[Doc]

Knowledge is usually the result of experience and time. Ignorance comes free in 55 gallon drums.

Heat guns are just one way to skin the kitty. They can be a good way.If you take your putty knife and round off the coners and dull the sharp edges you solve a lot of the problems.

Remember that a lot of luthiers use hide glue. This stuff is heat activated so anything that's under stress will come apart unless careful. Yellow gue can too. Most modern finishes are a form of plastic. So is most binding and purfling. What softens one softens the other.Polyester is really flammable and does give off toxic fumes when it is heated or burned. Mostly nasty acids. Look at the MSDS for any of them. They warm against disposal by burning.

There is no one right way to do this stuff, but there are a few hard and fast rules for any of them.

Goggles, masks, ventilation and patience are the rule for every single one of them. Other than that it's what works for you. I have a half dozen different strippers, a half dozen different solvents, a heat gun and a bunch of sanders. Whatever works, works.

[Setch]

Remember that a lot of luthiers use hide glue. This stuff is heat activated so anything that's under stress will come apart unless careful. Yellow gue can too.

To clarify, yellow glue and white glues (ie: Titebond) are far more likely to fail under heat than hide glue. Hide requires heat *and* moisture to release - if you keep it dry it is the most heat resistant glue around (with the possible exception of Poly-U). Heating titebond will make it soft, and easy to separate, but it's only really a problem if you stress the joint whilst applying heat - a guitar body being stripped shouldn't be under any stress, so I wouldn't sweat the issue.

Oh - and to the original poster. Maple and mahogany guitar, with plastic binding, stripped with a heatgun. The finish is 100% clear, pretty unforgiving of boo-boos, I'd love you to point out the scorch marks:

[Doc]

Beatiful job. Just goes to show that if you're careful and take your time you can get tough finish off with a minimum of damage.

Just as an example, how long on the clock did it take you and what was the original finish? It would probably save some of the neo's some frustration if they have an idea of how fast the job should go in the hands of someone who really does know what they're doing with this stuff.

There may be some differences in the formulation of stuff here and in the UK. I've had a number of guys from over your way work for me over the years and have always been curious about why so many of our techniques aren't used more by each other. I've adopted a bunch of their methods and some people here look at me funny when I describe them. Again, what works for you, works.

I know that most of the yellow glue I use is more resistant to heat than the hide that I use. This is Behlen's. And the white is most resistant of all. I regularly pull hide glue joints apart with a heat gun and a butter knife. I work the blade into the joint, heat it with the gun and slowly lever it apart. This is mostly in furniture repair redoing a mistake, but it works great to pull off an acoustic bridge without screwing up the finish.

Ditto with yellow, but the white can give me trouble. There is some stuff called "De-glue Goo" that dissolves any water soluble glue with no damage to the surrounding finsh and I resort to that with white and yellow because it does take a while to work.

I know some folks who veneer with yellow glue by painting both sides, letting it dry then ironing it on. No me.

[Setch]

The finish I stripped was Oxford Premium Spray Lacquer, a waterbased lacquer specifically formulated to behave as much like nitro as possible. It's widely used by acoustic builders, and is sold by StewMac as Colortone Waterbased.

I figure an hour to strip the whole guitar. The top probably took 15 minutes, with another 10 mins to go over the maple with 240, 320 and 400 grit before shellac-ing it. Not so much as a trace of discolouration, even on the tough areas like the neck joint and volute.

[Drak]

You guys who fall for the trolls make me laugh, because there's something about trolling...it's something that is inherant in the human being that wants to respond to trolls, and that's exactly what they count on.

It takes self-control to let them just pass quietly in the night, but if you have no self control, you will respond to the troller in a knee-jerk fashion and the troller has caught himself a big fish.

Once you spot a troll thread, just pass it by and let it go quietly into the night, unless you want to draw the troll out into the light of day and name him for what he is (with no emotion, they hate that) and then let the thread go quietly into the night.

The only rule when you see a troll thread is:

Use your self-control and don't post anything at all.

Or just post the word troll, and move on.

But you can't do it, can you?

By posting, especially with emotion, you give the troller a sense of control and satisfaction, he is making you dance like a puppet on a string, whether you're calling him a retard or whatever, he got you to react, and that's all that counts. The more emotion the better.

Trolling is weird psychological stuff man...

[Devon Headen]

If we didn't reply then people would have reservations about using heat guns. I suppose we did take it farther than we needed to, but at least nobody's confused about heat guns. It sounded to me like a ligitimate argument for someone that has absolutely no experience but thinks they know everything about guitars from a couple books.

[Saber]

Whether the troll gets his jollies is no concern. Stopping his misinformation is all that counts. If his post is left without a response, then someone who doesn't know any better might take his word as the truth. I couldn't care less if a troll gets his jollies at my expense.