GregP Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 Ok, i seem to be misunderstood, on all of the bolt ons and setnecks ive seen without a TOM, there is about 1-2mm of neck wood proud of the body. thats not high enough not to need to resess a TOM tho. ← No, you're not being misunderstood. I already said that there are guitars like that. However, this project here, in this thread, features a guitar with wood that is not proud of the body. I think if you dig through some pictures, you'll find that it's more like 3 mm PLUS the height of the fingerboard, but that's just splitting hairs. Point being, I at least understood what you were saying, but it's not going to happen for this guitar. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 New update: Let's see. I've gotten a lot done. The neck (except the headstock and the very, very end (past the nut) of the fretboard, and the fretboard) is pretty much done. Unfortunately, the four feet of fretwire LMI recommends per instrument is NOT enough. That's why four fret slots still don't have frets . I also haven't dressed the frets at all, which has led to several deepish cuts on my hands. I also made my first big mistake. Because of the thicker-than-normal fretboard, I accidentally took the neck too thin just below the headstock, and knocked through to the truss rod. Oops. I sanded it super flat about to about six inches below the headstock and glued on a 1/4" thick piece of maple on over the back and reshaped the neck. That's why the maple gets wider. It actually doesn't look too bad, although of course it would look better without it. The two little spots where there are little steps in the maple are because I actually had to glue a thin piece of maple on that would flex a bit so I could then sand that down and get it perfectly flat. In case noone noticed, at present the headstock has a keyhole in it. I think I'll probably fill the back and put a cover over the front, although I *may* just leave it an open keyhole. Unfotunately, I've been evicted from my dorm's wood shop until after this weekend, so not much more is going to get done, especially as I need to order more fretwire and haven't yet recieved my pickups (Bartolini PBF-49 and PBF-57). All that said, this project has gone amazingly well considering it's my first ever and I only started on Friday. I look forward to getting finished next week! The guitar feels really good in my hands, or at least it did until I put in most of the frets and it started cutting holes in me every time I touch it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Just noticed you can't really see the neck joint in that picture - so here's a better picture of it. It's not as radical as the AANJ style, but I never really use the frets above 17 and it's actually pretty comfortable up there (I have really long fingers and big hands). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Heel of neck looks nice. As you said......it's possible to take bit further off heel... and have it recessed bit more into body.....but you seem to like it like this so no problem there. What's with strange maple stripe on back of neck in previous picture. Or is that tape stuck to back of neck??? Stripe widens big time, closer to headstock??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 What's with strange maple stripe on back of neck in previous picture. Or is that tape stuck to back of neck??? Stripe widens big time, closer to headstock??? ← That's maple, not tape. I got a little overzealous with the surform and took a bit too much off the neck up there (because my fretboard blank started out a touch over 3/8" - it was down to a pretty thin neck, slightly thicker than an ibanez) exposing the truss rod slot in a tiny hole at the end of the neck, so I had to add a bit of wood - I tried to explain in my first post, but I guess I wasn't very clear about it. I didn't think I could match a scrap of the maple/walnut laminate very well and decided that a single piece of maple would look better than a slightly off center stripe. In retrospect, I probably should have tried it. It's a shame because it ruined the clean line running all the way up the back of the neck, but it was my mistake on my first guitar and I fixed it myself - so I think we'll count it a victory . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 This points out the biggest danger of a neck-thru....you are forced to either fix it, or toss the whole project. JNew I think you managed a good recovery job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maiden69 Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I would haved routed a strip down the center of the neck, like a reversed skunk strip, and it would have looked way better. I don't know if anybody has thought about this, but I was thinking about routing a strip on the back of the fretboard in a case like this that you are using a thick one, I guess that's one of the points why Greg and I suggested the thin laminate to raise the fretboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 I would haved routed a strip down the center of the neck, like a reversed skunk strip, and it would have looked way better. I don't know if anybody has thought about this, but I was thinking about routing a strip on the back of the fretboard in a case like this that you are using a thick one, I guess that's one of the points why Greg and I suggested the thin laminate to raise the fretboard. ← Unfortunately, a skunk stripe wouldn't have worked - this happened during the final shaping of the neck, and I didn't drill a hole through to the truss rod channel or something, I had removed material until there was not enough wood left to support the truss rod. I HAD to add a wide strip. I've been thinking about filing most of it off and using an extra bit of the laminate I had lying around - but noone's perfect and this is my first guitar and I've decided that I want to be able to see my mistake and remember it so that it doesn't happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Man that stinks that it screwed up Man I'm sorry I diddnt explain myself better because I that was exatly what I knew would happen if you used a fingerboard too thick. So sorry for not explaining myself better. I could have saved you from the uglyness. But hey it's on the back of the neck. Whos gonna look there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Man that stinks that it screwed up Man I'm sorry I diddnt explain myself better because I that was exatly what I knew would happen if you used a fingerboard too thick. So sorry for not explaining myself better. I could have saved you from the uglyness. But hey it's on the back of the neck. Whos gonna look there? ← No worries... I knew it would happen too if I went too far - I just stopped paying attention and went too far . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowser Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Great Work, though. I personally think it's awesome how you are looking at it and not getting upset and tossing the whole thing (though I am sure you were less than pleased when it happened!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CudBucket Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 I applaud your positive outlook on the problems you've had. I'd have jumped off the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 The surform's a lot of fun, but it's pretty dangerous. Shaping the neck was actually my favorite part of the whole project so far, it was like you just look at it, think about what you want, rub the surform across it, and it takes the shape you want. Unfortunately I wasn't thinking and went too thin, but I really enjoyed the whole process. I did the whole neck (including taper) freehand with a sanding drum, surform, rasp, bastard file, and sandpaper, and it was great because it was a lot like sculpting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 The surform's a lot of fun, but it's pretty dangerous. Shaping the neck was actually my favorite part of the whole project so far, it was like you just look at it, think about what you want, rub the surform across it, and it takes the shape you want. Unfortunately I wasn't thinking and went too thin, but I really enjoyed the whole process. I did the whole neck (including taper) freehand with a sanding drum, surform, rasp, bastard file, and sandpaper, and it was great because it was a lot like sculpting. If that is the case....I would have scrapped the neck and start all over again. This is something that would bug me forever. Would party staining the maple on neck, an option.....that way the color difference won't be so noticable. Meaningspray laquer on center piece of laminate and then stain side parts.....this way ot will blend in again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 When you say scrapping the neck, do you mean scrapping the body, too? Pretty hard to just scrap a neck on a neck-through. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korge Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Awesome work and design, gives me some inspiration to start something.... But that leaves me with a couple of questions.... first, how are you gonna fit all your wires and such in side that guitar without chopping it all up? i mean, for the switches, you need to... Also, for the fretboard, where is your long rod thingy that is always a neccesity?.. just wonderin, but nice so far.... Now a question i just need answered... what were the dimensions of each piece o wood that made up the center fretboard area?were they just strait pieces glued together or slightlyy angled pieces? i cant tell from the images... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyroman Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Wow, so far this is a really nice looking srtat. AS for the neck well i aplaud you for continuing on inspite of that mess up. I nevery would have been able to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) When you say scrapping the neck, do you mean scrapping the body, too? Pretty hard to just scrap a neck on a neck-through. Wings are glued to neck right??? Bit of steam on glue joint and say bye bye scrappy neck. With recovered wings and new neck blank you can move on. Keeping it like this would seriously piss me off, every time I would pick up the guitar (if it was mine). Edited April 9, 2005 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I don't imagine it'd be as simple as that, RGGR, but nor would it be impossible. korge: - You just rout from the back. It's exceedingly common practice. There are lots and lots of guitars that don't use pickguards and top routing. - He already mentioned that the truss rod is in there. That's how he knew he sanded through too much, because he went right through to the truss rod channel - A neck through is commonly made with straight pieces glued together. Even if you want to make a neck-through with an angle, you use straight pieces and then plane the body (not the neck) flat at the correct angle. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) I don't imagine it'd be as simple as that, RGGR, but nor would it be impossible. Well option two could be taking router and routing whole middle section out of guitar. Simply clamping nice square piece to bottom of body and let router do the rest.... This way you will have the two wings available for new try, and some expensive firewood to burn up on nice summer evening while drinking a cold brewski. Disclaimer: Not promoting drinking alcohol here.......so apple juice could suffice too. Can't really make out if you attached fretboard yet, otherwise use tutorial on main page to steam this off first before routing wings/neck off. Looking at amount of wood you still has available....I would serious consider this option. Will be some more work but you will be way more happy in end. Remember every time your hands feel that funky maple screw-up laminate you will be remembered about this. And first thing friends or girlie will say....."Yeah, nice guitar.....but what's that tape doing on back of neck". That's not tape....that's.....(well you know the rest of story......) Make 'm so your kids can one day proudly say....YEAH, MY DAD MADE THIS AWESOME GUITAR LONG TIME AGO...... Edited April 9, 2005 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) Yikes, lots of posts! RGGR - I've thought about doing that with the dye - I'm not sure though. I don't mind it being there as a reminder. korge - Before gluing the wings to the neck-through piece, I routed a channel on the interior of the top wing to bring the wires from the front pickup cavity to the back pickup cavity. Then I'll route out a cavity (from behind) behind where all the pots go. Then I'll drill the jack socket hole in the side of the guitar, and then drill from that rear routed cavity to the rear pickup cavity (maybe through the jack hole or maybe just at a little bit of an angle). The rod was just installed before I put the fretboard on. All the pieces were straight and an inch and three quarters thick. The middle piece was a little more than half an inch, the two walnut pieces on either side were a bit more than three quarters of an inch. The next maple pieces I just planed down till they looked good, they're about a quarter inch now. None of them are tapered. RGGR again: I'm doing the best job I can on this guitar, but it's only my first and I'm sure to make mistakes. If I took it apart and tried to put in a new neck-through piece, I'm sure I'd make some other mistake. It'll just be a reminder to be careful in the future, as it doesn't affect how the neck feels at all. If I were building this for someone else, the answer would be different and I wouldn't be happy unless it were perfect, but (this being my first) I'm obviously building it for myself, and I don't want to go back almost all the way to the beginning and start over on this guitar for a mistake that I made and fixed. Maybe if I leave it this way, it'll help me remember not to make the same mistake (or ones like it) again. That said, I should've gone ahead and tried using an extra scrap of the laminate I had so that it would look closer to right, and even though I'm not going to go back and nearly start over I can understand wanting to, it's just that for me the other option comes out slightly on top. EDIT: RGGR's last post showed up after I started writing this one and I didn't see it - I just have one thing to add. You actually can't feel any difference there, because I was very careful to blend it into the neck. It's possible I'll still file or route the maple off and try again with a piece of the laminate, but I'm not going to start over on the whole neck. Also, if this were going to be the only guitar I build, my answer might be different, but I'm already planning an SG for this summer . Edited April 9, 2005 by jnewman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 I don't want to go back almost all the way to the beginning and start over on this guitar for a mistake that I made and fixed. Completely see where you're coming from. Would be b*tch to start all over again with neck. Would option be to just route out that center maple section??? This way you will have less sanding and shaping...... You may have noticed me not being fan of guitar as it is......... Also, if this were going to be the only guitar I build, my answer might be different, but I'm already planning an SG for this summer smile.gif. But isn't whole new guitar not way more work than just fixing already finished one????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Would option be to just route out that center maple section??? This way you will have less sanding and shaping...... Well, I may yet do that... in fact, I've been thinking very carefully about it, and probably will do that and replace most of it with the laminate. I'll have to be really, really, careful though - if I do try it, I'll probably have to pull the truss rod out at of the headstock end so that I don't damage it trying to get the wood flat and low enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 i scrapped a neck on a neck through...because i felt the mahogany i used was not dense enough to be stable. icould have easily just ripped it along the glue lines with a bandsaw...but instead i used a neck i already had built and turned the guitar into a set neck. in my mind it was alot better than living with a neck i was unsure of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 The neck is structurally sound the way it is now, it's just cosmetic - and I don't even mind the way it looks now, especially as I was planning to laminate a thin piece of maple to the back of the headstock (not the front, though, that'll stay uncovered). I feel like I will be better served by finishing the guitar up as it is and not possibly structurally ruining it trying to make it look like nothing happened. I know there are people here who will disagree with me (and have), but it's my guitar, and, at that, only my first one. I'm not going to risk screwing it up and I'm not going to start over - if nothing else, I need the practice on the rest of the details before I start only accepting perfection, because frankly I can't make perfect guitars yet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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