Doc Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 Okay guys, I've put together a walnut tele knockoff and I'm mostly happy with it. Black binding, coffee colored stain with a dead flat oil finish. Made my share of beginners errors but it plays about B+ and it looks pretty damn good for a beginner. Now for the wiring. I know that the hot pointy end of a soldering iron is the one that you don't hold on to, right? I'm used to wiring 3 phase woodworking hulks, not eensy tiny little wires and doo-dads, so here are some dumb questions. What do you cover the various splices with? Do you just use electrical tape after soldering or is there something more aesthetic and insulative? I've got two GFS humbuckers with 2 wires. (damn short little wires!) Also a regular 3 position tele switch, 2-250 audio taper pots and a .022 cap. I'm going to follow the Seymore duncan scheme for similar stuff and the diagram that came with the switch. Grounding. Where is the best place to connect all of the various grounds to? I figure I've got two pickups to ground, a cap and a bridge. Do they all go to the same place and then jump it to the socket or is there a better system? The diagrams just show "ground" and don't really say where. Do you just let force hold the ground to the bridge or do you need to solder it? I've read a bunch of books and the tutorials and I can't find anywhere where anyone has posted an actual photo for dense guys like me to see what it's supposed to look like inside the beast. My mosrite is not an electronic work of art and the Saga I put together isn't either. I'd like to do this so a) it works and it's not embarrassing when I have to get someone who knows what they're doing to help me get rid of the inevitable newbie hums. 'Preciate any help on this. I'm really itchy to get this sucker up and hummin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Generally, you can use heat shrink tubing around your solder joints; just remember to put it on the wire -before- you solder the joint! Sounds like you have your wiring scheme figured out. Ground to the back of the pots, the shielding, and finally to the jack. There is some debate as to whether to ground the bridge. As for pros, you can achieve less hum. As for cons, you run the risk of dying a painful death by electrocution because a crummy bar somewhere has badly wired outlets. Can you tell which side I'm on? Here's what my cavity looked like after wiring a volume-blend-tone setup with an EMG P-J set: Probably not the best, but I tried to fit a lot of stuff into a small cavity. Note the junction block used; it helped a lot with keeping things sane in such a tight space, and provided an easy way to ground to the foil shielding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Thanks for the input. I guess I'll hit Radio Shack on the way home tomorrow and get some tubing. The junction block is a great idea. I go back to when all amps were tube amps and actually had a guy in one of the bands I played with get zapped by faulty wiring. Maybe I don't really need to ground the bridge after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 There's an earth fix that I've got in at least one of my guitar's if you want to ground the bridge. Here's what you do... Get a .001 mfd 500volt capacitor and a 220k ohm resistor. Wire them in parallel (ie not one after another, which is series...sorry no pics). Wire this between ground and the bridge. Cover in shrink tubing or tape so it cant ground anything accidentally. Apparently, this will limit any shock to roughly 40 volts..."unpleasant but not leathal" (according to this book here). I don't think my caps rated at 500 volts but it doesn't seem to have effected the tone. A real jolt I figure will blow the components anyway, isolating the strings. Of course knobs and such aren't protected by this. Looking at my test strat I see I've connected it directly to the jack earth and so everything after is governed by it. Anyway, not a bad idea to put in there for anyone for about 10c of components. just thought I'd put that in...I've been zapped myself! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovekraft Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 First of all, I've never seen a passive setup without a bridge ground that wasn't unacceptably noisy, at least for my purposes. Second, you really haven't protected yourself all that much, since the pot cases, the shielding and the output jack will all still be live. As for Pete's cap setup, it'll block DC from a defective power supply, but it won't stop AC. The best policy (and the only sane course of action, IMO) is to buy an outlet tester and use it religiously whenever you're setting up. Of course, a wireless eliminates the whole problem, but they've got their own set of disadvantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibum5545 Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Could you simply wire a small fuse in on the ground wire to the bridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Yeah I take your point, LK...the idea came from adrian Leggs book and I got it from GP and the specs from Make your own electric guitar and bass by Waring,D "Could you simply wire a small fuse in on the ground wire to the bridge?" That sounds sensible...would that help...In case of emergency? BTW, testing points is important...however...It will be that one time you don't that will get you. When I was zapped, it was from the bass player's old amp which we were using for vocals in rehersals and the points all seemed ok for months playing there...mind you, it got me on the lips...not as funny as it might have looked to the other guy's...now I know why they made me a vocalist!! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 A fuse wouldn't react fast enough to stop you from being killed by a faulty outlet. Remember, once you touch both hands to the metal strings, your heart lies directly in the path of the current. It only takes as little as 50 mA to stop your heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Fair Call... When I work with my builder friend...and most places here have to have them in new and renovated homes anyway...we take all our power from a powerboard with a circuit safety switch. We don't leave home without it and I've sworn that if I were to gig again, I'd do the same! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarGuy Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Fair Call... When I work with my builder friend...and most places here have to have them in new and renovated homes anyway...we take all our power from a powerboard with a circuit safety switch. We don't leave home without it and I've sworn that if I were to gig again, I'd do the same! pete ← Not a bad call. One could make a power board that had those safety outlets that are used in bathrooms and such. I'm no expert in electrical but it may be cheap insurance. (Still theres no replacement for checking the outlets before hand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 When I was zapped, it was from the bass player's old amp which we were using for vocals in rehersals and the points all seemed ok for months playing there...mind you, it got me on the lips...not as funny as it might have looked to the other guy's...now I know why they made me a vocalist!! pete ← That's the only way I've ever been zapped. Nothing has ever come through the guitar, but I've had a hot mic on a couple occasions. Getting zapped in the lip repeatedly is no fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 GROUND THE BRIDGE. i swear the wiring schematics don't include a bridge ground for no reason.if you don't want to ground the bridge,you only have ONE viable option.active pickups.that's it... if you must use passives,then use a little sense.ground the bridge and play it regularly through your own home outlets(if you don't trust your home's electrical system,then you have problems). then when you play away from home on a stage setup,use a wireless system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 occasionally we find a faulty socket in a person's home when we plug the safety switch board to it and the thing trips due to a ground leak. So...to an extent...the safety switch also tests the outlet. Remember, when small time gigging, it's not the guitar that is necessary the hazard...it's the hired dodgy PA, the homemade lights...just about anything else around you on stage. There's only so much you can go wireless with. Oh yeah...repeated lip zaps cause your mid song is not at all funny...stop laughing...it's not! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted May 4, 2005 Report Share Posted May 4, 2005 wireless mic,wireless guitar.that is all you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I've got a box rigged with a ground fault breaker. Cost me about $25.00 total and it has kept my bacon from getting fried on jobsites a bunch of times. A few years back I drilled into a wall that "has absolutely nothing inside, honest" and hit a nicely grounded cold water pipe. The main breaker didn't budge, my GFI did. Trust a GFI. They react fast enough that you don't get any burn whatsoever. I've had most of my shops in abandoned industrial plants and the power is always ancient and scary. I play at home on concrete floors so I'm cautious even though the wiring is good. I borrowed a friends wireless rig just for grins and the room I use at home has got so much interference that I'm inclined to just stay hard wired. The picture was a big help. I feel better about my mediocre electronic skills. I guess I just have to get used to stuffing ten pounds of potatoes in a five pound sack using a soldering iron and a screwdriver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 ground fault breaker = safety switch "I've got a box rigged with a ground fault breaker. Cost me about $25.00 total and it has kept my bacon from getting fried on jobsites a bunch of times." Exactly doc...plus even if your house or whatever does have one some circuits (usually lights) are not always connected so it's better to bring your own. And, when they do trip it usually doesnt take the whole dwelling down with it, just the band connected to the local powerboard. But, do yourself a favor and just buy a 4-6 point adaptor with safety switch installed...it's not something you want to leave any doubt in the back of your mind about your wiring skills! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBERTLATHAM1 Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Fair Call... When I work with my builder friend...and most places here have to have them in new and renovated homes anyway...we take all our power from a powerboard with a circuit safety switch. We don't leave home without it and I've sworn that if I were to gig again, I'd do the same! pete ← Not a bad call. One could make a power board that had those safety outlets that are used in bathrooms and such. I'm no expert in electrical but it may be cheap insurance. (Still theres no replacement for checking the outlets before hand) ← this will work only if you have a ground at the outlet if there is no ground at the outlet. the g.f.c.i. (ground fault circuit interuputer) will fail the second you plug it in. the most ashured way to insure proper ground is to use a ground pig tail and make shure that that pig tail is grounded to either the receptical cover screw or directly to the electrical system grounding grid. i have pushed for ground rods to be a code requirement in stage area's! if you gig at places more than once it is worth the time and nominal cash to put a ground rod or independent grounded outlet system at the stage area. very easy to do! that would be all the wisdom this electricain can give you guys. know that ac low voltage i.e. 120v is very leathal as it is just enough voltage to cause your musles to consrict! not let go! it grabs you~! where higher voltages have enough potential to knock you away regarless of musle constriction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted May 6, 2005 Report Share Posted May 6, 2005 I thought there may still be faults (pardon the pun) to the concept. BTW 250v AC down here but certified safty switches are pretty much mandatory and must be installed by an electician and added to homes and businesses when electrical work is done and that work must be certified. I'd be surprised if it weren't mandatory for insurance purposes down here also. But...your rehearsal space, garage, workshop, scout hall...etc....who knows. One way to test your ground switch though is to intentionally set it off (not by sticking your finger in the socket!) so at least you know there is a ground. Most of them have a button for this (mine does) so you can tell if the thing's working ok. While I have one in my house, you just don't know if someone hasn't wired something up without the ground etc or bypassed it by wiring into a lighting circuit. By running your own circuit breaker it's just a little extra assurance. I know I got saved once by it by inadvertantly trying to solder live AC! I thought I'd unplugged it but it turned out it wasn't the pickup winder I was making but the soldering iron that I'd unplugged...plugs were identical. Fortunately I'm still here to make more mistakes... Anyway...the whole discussion has strayed from the original topic but hopefully it's raised some awareness of the danger we may be taking for granted. psw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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