Bluestreak Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Hey guys, I searched but couldn't find a good answer. I have a brand new Ibanez RG2770 that I imported from Japan. Because I imported the guitar outside its intended region, the warranty is void, so I'm S.O.L. in getting help directly from Ibanez. My guitar won't come into enough relief - I seem to have a bit of a fret buzz that's driving me crazy. With the truss rod nut completely loose (to the point where it could literally be spun off the shaft with your finger) the neck is almost dead straight - it won't bow at all. I need some options, ideas, whatever... of how I might be able to fix this problem. I've never dealt with a guitar that wouldn't come into enough relief - I've always had the opposite problem. Many thanks for your input. -Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I had this problem with a RG570 that did exactly the same as yours, i strung it up with 9's and just let it sit with the rod loose and after a few month some relief came into the neck. You could bend it ith clamps and let it sit but i wouldnt want to do that with a brand new guitar..... Have you tried 10's on it? Have you put a straight edge on it? I could be that the neck has a rise at the start of the fingerboard or that the relief is there but just too far up the board. I am assuming that it buzzs at the first 5 or so frets and is ok after that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 there was a similar thread a month or so ago and someone gave a great tip on how to fix the problem. had to do with clamping the neck somehow to give it a front bow and then tightening the truss rod. after a while you unclamp it and then release the truss rod until you get the relief that you need. hopefully someone will come along that remembers and can find the thread for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestreak Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I put a straight edge on it and cleaned up the frets a little. There was a tiny hump in the fretboard near the 5th fret, but the tiniest bit of filing cleared up the problem from frets about 2 through 7. From 7 through 15, it buzzes all over the place unless the action is set uncomfortably high, and then it totally hoses the usability of the upper fret registers. You need a scaffold to get high enough to put up with the action above the 15th fret with the action set high enough to eliminate the buzz. I have it strung with 9's and I just actually took the truss rod nut off and stuck it in a box so I wouldn't lose it because it was so loose. I was thinking the same thing, though... maybe if I string it up with a heavier gauge and leave the truss rod 100% loose, maybe it'll come around in a few months. It's been like this for two months now since I got the guitar, but it was only the last couple of days I loosened the rod all the way. I have seen no real change since letting the rod out all the way a couple of days ago. It may just take more time. It's a pain in the butt and uncharacteristic for a high-end Ibanez. Please, if anyone else has any suggestions, I'm all ears... Thanks. -R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Headen Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I've had a similar problem. Try putting some 10s or 11s on there and letting it sit a little while. EDIT, and the thread mentioned earlier http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...topic=16279&hl= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Ask Wes to reply. I think he went through this a year or two ago and had a snappy repair for it. Snappy, where the heck did that term come from? HMMMM....... Mispent youth is something you only get to do once but it haunts you the rest of your.........I remmember!! Snappy Sam Smoot from the old ZAP comic books!! Yeah, That's it. Heh, heh, he....what were we talking about again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I've had a similar problem. Try putting some 10s or 11s on there and letting it sit a little while. EDIT, and the thread mentioned earlier http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...topic=16279&hl= ← that's the thread that i was thinking of..read down until you get to the answer about the 2x4 and try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egdeltar Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I had this problem a few years back. I undid the rod, put 11's on it and tuned it a bit sharp then left it in its case for a month. Worked pretty out prett well. I was please with the out come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 it sounds a bit odd that the guitar buzzes all along the neck. This probably means there is relief but not in the right place and or there is a little rise in the board as you have said. I would be inclined to have it fret dressed to see if it does make the difference. Big frets are easy to dress, also make sure your striaght edge is not just a ruler and is an actual straight edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestreak Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 it sounds a bit odd that the guitar buzzes all along the neck. This probably means there is relief but not in the right place and or there is a little rise in the board as you have said. I would be inclined to have it fret dressed to see if it does make the difference. Big frets are easy to dress, also make sure your striaght is not just a ruler and is an actual straight edge. This was done already - first by me, then I had a qualified luthier take a look at the frets. They're as straight and true as it gets. I've got an idea ... think about this. Basically, I will leave the neck on the guitar, the truss rod tightened a little, and I leave it tuned to standard with 9's on it. Then, every night when I'm done playing (yes, it is playable, just a little annoying at times) I brace the neck near the nut with a caul radiused to the back of the neck, run a piece of 2x4 from the back of the body braced on the back of the neck pocket to the caul behind the nut, and using a clamp, put an ever-so-gentle amount of pressure near the center of the neck (forcing the down-bow I'm looking for) and check it daily until it's achieved enough relief to be adjustable with the truss rod tightened slightly... in time, that theoretically would force the neck to where it should be with the truss rod usable for adjustments again. Assuming I described this enough for you to understood what I just typed... what do you think? -R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 This is a what if, so if it's off the wall somebody slap me. What if you tighten the truss rod enough to put a bit of back bow in it, then level the frets? When you loosen the rod wouldn't there be a bit of relief? I'm just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I haven't been able to find the thread that had Wes's fix on it but I did find an obscure Ibanez repair site that said to take the strings off, loosen the trussrods to neutral and push the crap out of it in the direction of the offense. Sounds like some of them might have a trussrod binding problem. Old Framus guitars had the same thing cause they let glue and varnish get into the groove. Not to say getting into "the groove" is a bad thing, but it just don't work for truss rods on Framus........OK, what is the plural form of Framus? Framii? Framuses? Framuseses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I could be that the neck has a rise at the start of the fingerboard Whats with this, is there a way to fix this problem? It seems that the only relief is within the first 5 frets. The frets themselves seem even but I might smooth them out a little. I just can't figure out how to fix this problem, it's an ibanez, what you guys do to fix the other problem in this post won't work for this will it? Thanks and hope you can help? Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestreak Posted June 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Ok, I've got a fix in the works for this. When I rig this up (it ought to be interesting!) I'll snap a picture and share with you guys. -R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 i don't set up relief at all in my necks...some of them have a bit of relief naturally(my gibsons)... but i thought those new japanese ibanez guitars had 2 way rods?i swear that my rgt does(but i am not positive...it just adjusts too easily for a standard rod.) i set my guitars up with as straight a neck as possible..and i level my frets with the neck perfectly straight as well...is it possible that your idea of low action is too low?or possible that you are trying to downtune with 9s? i mean...if i had it to look at,i could easily set it up perfectly i am sure...but there are too many variables to a setup to just say"oh it's definately ......" i have a feeling you are either expecting too much in the way of low action,or you have some unlevel frets,despite what you were told. are you familiar with fret leveling?you worry me with this talk of "filing" it's not very good to try to level a fretboard one fret at a time...most people use a very straight straightedge with a little 220 or 320 on it,then recrown,then polish.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I am sorry, Wes. I could have SWORN it was you that had a sticky rod in an Ibanez. Lord, I hope I never have to say THAT again! I always try to steer people away from doing fretwork just because it is irreversible, know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 I am sorry, Wes. I could have SWORN it was you that had a sticky rod in an Ibanez. Lord, I hope I never have to say THAT again! I always try to steer people away from doing fretwork just because it is irreversible, know what I mean? ← i only own 2 ibanez guitars...i have worked on a few,but i don't recall ever having that problem. fretwork is not hard...only tedious.but it sounds like he already screwed the pooch with that file anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 21, 2005 Report Share Posted June 21, 2005 Well, with a little luck, he may not have gone too far. Did I mention that I HATE fret-dressing? The last thing you would see me using is a file of any type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestreak Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 First of all, I'm no beginner. I've made new fretboards for existing necks (I just finished a retrofit on my Ibanez RG7621, to which I added a Brazilian bloodwood fretboard and quilted maple veneer to the face and headstock). Since I've made fretboards, you could surmise I've done a few fretjobs. I've just never built a neck from scratch, let alone tried to repair a problem like this, and I'm not as familiar as I could be with truss rod operation beyond knowing how to set up a guitar - I've never installed a truss rod - I've only removed and replaced good parts on healthy necks; I've never tried to correct this sort of problem. I'm an amateur craftsman, but I'm no luthier. That's why I'm asking you what's up here. If I said "file" where I should have said "dress" - don't **** a twinkie! I just don't talk much about this stuff, I just do it in my garage by myself. I'm not a well-socialized amateur luthier... so I lack the vocabulary. Anyway... so I'm not as familiar with truss rod installation as I could be. Trust me, I didn't screw anything up. This guitar has been inspected by two trained luthiers after I dressed the frets (my fretwork was just fine, thank you!). I never got a straight answer out of them as to how the problem could be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 First of all, I'm no beginner. I've made new fretboards for existing necks (I just finished a retrofit on my Ibanez RG7621, to which I added a Brazilian bloodwood fretboard and quilted maple veneer to the face and headstock). Since I've made fretboards, you could surmise I've done a few fretjobs. I've just never built a neck from scratch, let alone tried to repair a problem like this, and I'm not as familiar as I could be with truss rod operation beyond knowing how to set up a guitar - I've never installed a truss rod - I've only removed and replaced good parts on healthy necks; I've never tried to correct this sort of problem. I'm an amateur craftsman, but I'm no luthier. That's why I'm asking you what's up here. If I said "file" where I should have said "dress" - don't **** a twinkie! I just don't talk much about this stuff, I just do it in my garage by myself. I'm not a well-socialized amateur luthier... so I lack the vocabulary. Anyway... so I'm not as familiar with truss rod installation as I could be. Trust me, I didn't screw anything up. This guitar has been inspected by two trained luthiers after I dressed the frets (my fretwork was just fine, thank you!). I never got a straight answer out of them as to how the problem could be solved. ← well...it sounds like you already know everything then...good luck and thank you for gracing us with your cleverly disguised test. sorry bud...that dog just won't hunt...if you have in fact done all of the things you say you have,and if you are,in fact,well versed in fret jobs and truss rod adjustment..and if you did,in fact,truly know how to set up a guitar...you would not be having this problem...and that is a fact. you must be wrong about SOMETHING...you say that the neck is straight,the frets are level,and that the strings are the proper distance off the fretboard at the nut and last fret(that is what proper action means..in case you wonder where i get that) well..i tell you that if all that is true...then you will not have fret buzz unless some of the higher frets are not properly seated and are moving down in the slot as you fret them...but that can't be,because you say you are familiar with fretting... see my dilemma?i am trying to solve a problem with information which is suspect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestreak Posted June 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 I didn't say that, Wes. I've refretted a few guitars - "well-versed" is not the term to use. I know how to adjust a truss rod - loose means relief, tighter means flatter - that's it! That's all I was saying. An expert I am not, which is why I asked you. My apologies for wasting your time. -R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 i edited my post....reread it please...maybe it will help you describe the problem better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemleggat Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 Under no circumstances should you dress relief into a neck! It should be as straight as possible when dressing. I also play my guitars with practically no relief. Not that that statement helps in anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 loose means relief, tighter means flatter i think i may see the miscommunication...that is not EXACTLY what relief means...give me a minute to think about it and i will repost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 okay...here is the long version of the way i see it. it seems to me that vintage guitars with the single action truss rod only do one thing...the truss rod only counteracts the pull of the strings...keeping the neck as straight as possible...they also used to use heavier strings...more pull against the truss rod,you see? neck relief is a term used to describe the amount of forward bow in a neck...the amount by which the middle of the fretboard is lower than the two ends...against the pull of those heavier strings over time,keeping a perfectly straight neck was not feasable...the vintage style truss rod does not have enough leverage to exude that much force.if you know about the curved channel of the vintage truss rod you will see why that is so. modern guitars(most of them...not gibson) use 2 way truss rods...they are far,far superior...the 2 way truss rod works against itself,exuding much more force than the vintage style...with this rod,it is almost always possible to have your neck with zero relief(middle of the fretboard is dead level with the 2 ends)...i think(even though some still cling to "optimum neck relief") that zero relief is exactly what is needed for optimum action.no matter how i play out the geometry in my head...neck relief makes no sense to me...all it does is create a less than optimum "field" for your strings to interact with at some point on the fretboard.... so...if your neck is perfectly straight(no backbow at all)and your frets are all properly seated and leveled...then you will be able to have super low action without a hint of fret buzz,even with 9s(that's what i use and i tune to e flat...my action is as low as my floyd will allow...you know i assume that pulling the bar back on the floyd lowers the action and will fret out if it is too low?) you get me?check and see that your frets are seated properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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