johnsilver Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 It looks like the folks down at the US Dept of Agriculture Forest Products Lab have been busy. Boy, you can tell I've taken a day of vacation and am completely bored. Here is a publication on various woods and their properties including relative hardness. Table 4-3b (US woods) and Table 4-5b (imported woods) show the hardness stats (column on the far right labeled Side Hardness measured in pounds of force required to sink a steel ball with a diameter of 0.444" to half its thickness into the wood) USDA Publication In case you don't want to peruse the whole riveting article, here are some guitar-related hilites in relative hardness from softer to harder: Western Red Cedar 310 Engelmann Spruce 390 Basswood 410 Alder 590 Mahogany 800 Big Leaf Maple 850 Ash 850-1320 (depending on the variety) Walnut 1010 Sugar Maple 1450 Merbau 1500 Purpleheart 1860 Bubinga 2690 Brazilian Rosewood 2720 Indian Rosewood 3170 Ipe 3680 Lignum Vitae 4500 (ouch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 So if you want to avoid dents in the body. Make it out of Lignum Vitae. Thats pretty tough stuff. That site is great for info. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demian Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Lignum Vitae ? How much HPs do I need in the electrical machines to cut it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Lignum Vitae ? How much HPs do I need in the electrical machines to cut it ? ← We might ask Hyunsu. I recall he was using lignum vitae for some part of a guitar - neck mabye? I know it has been used for centuries in wooden mallets - the kind you use with chisels / gouges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loquito5765 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 As you can see by the info on the left, im sorta new to the whole guitar refurbishing, making, thing. Wont a softer wood give more of a tone? Or the other way around, or what? thx in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Tone? I am talking about dent resistance. I have never used Lignum Vitae, and am not familiar with it at all(tonally). Sure does seem like it is hard material though. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loquito5765 Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 well, from what i heared softer more higher quality wood gives a better tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 well, from what i heared softer more higher quality wood gives a better tone ← Pffffft. No basic physical specs are going to define the tone for ya in any sort of meaningful manner. All these numbers are, for one thing, averages. Different woods will have different tones, some won't have much of any tone (some woods just kinda go 'thunk' when ya bonk 'em, no ring to them), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted September 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hey boys. This isn't about tone. Its about hard wood. Think ZZ Top's classic song "Woke Up With Wood". Oops. Sorry. That's about something else entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 well, from what i heared softer more higher quality wood gives a better tone ← Not really, Lets take types of wood as examples and compare. engelmann Spruce Soft & light/ tends to be bright Sugar Maple Hard & heavy/ tends to be bright Basswood- Soft and light/ tends to cut highs(warm tone) The structure of the wood is more significant than its hardness. It is very true that every piece of wood will sound different. The values given are helpful to give you some general idea of what to expect, but there are many variables. As far as "better" tone that is a really subjective. A good tone wood may be a bad choice for your project if it doesn't have the tonal qualities you are trying to achieve. You may find a piece of wood that is not commonly used because of its typical properties, but the piece you find may sound great(like I said there are a lot of factors that can make wood sound good). Learn to trust your ears more than what you read , and stay open minded . Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 come on now, everyone knows tone is in your fingers and your amp Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 come on now, everyone knows tone is in your fingers and your amp Curtis ← and the wood...and pickup selection...and hardware,tightness of tolerances,hardware,strings,capacitors,type of pick,what size room you play in,humidity,type of finish,and whether or not you are wearing shoes(i get better tone barefoot...gotta "connect" with the planet,ya know?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtis P Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 wes, if your saying i went out in my birthday suit in the middle of a field with a battery powered amp (a decent one) and decent pickups, with the most "perfect" humidity, and using the "perfect" pick and the guitar was perfect, i would be the best guitarist out there, tone wise?? wow, see y'all in the headlines! Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 wes, if your saying i went out in my birthday suit in the middle of a field with a battery powered amp (a decent one) and decent pickups, with the most "perfect" humidity, and using the "perfect" pick and the guitar was perfect, i would be the best guitarist out there, tone wise?? ← of course...that is exactly what i am saying... isn't that what you do anyway?or am i the only one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 [insert joke here] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 wes, if your saying i went out in my birthday suit in the middle of a field with a battery powered amp (a decent one) and decent pickups, with the most "perfect" humidity, and using the "perfect" pick and the guitar was perfect, i would be the best guitarist out there, tone wise?? ← of course...that is exactly what i am saying... isn't that what you do anyway?or am i the only one? ← I agree 100% with Wes, Getting naked and playing in a field will make you the best guitar player on that field. Tonally,Technichally and any other way 99.99% of the time. On the rare occasion you meat up with a group of naked guitarists on that field. Well you may not have the best tone, technique or what have ya, but if your guitar is made out of Lignum Vitae.... You may have the hardest wood on the field (or at least you better hope it's the hardest ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooten2 Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Even if you didn't have the best tone, or the hardest wood, you'd still be out standing in your field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Even if you didn't have the best tone, or the hardest wood, you'd still be out standing in your field. ← Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnewman Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Just FYI - lignum vitae's also the heaviest wood in the world. Maple averages about 40-45lbs per cubic foot. Lignum vitae averages about 85. It's TWICE as dense as maple - and people thing maple-bodied guitars are heavy . It's also about the oiliest wood there is, which leads to its principle use - it's been used for a long, long time to make the bearings propeller shafts ride on at the hull in ships. The saltwater makes them swell and seal shut, but it's so oily that it lubricates the shaft and keeps it from binding. It's also terrifically strong, hard, and resistant to decay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Even if you didn't have the best tone, or the hardest wood, you'd still be out standing in your field. ← "I wish I'd said that, Wilde." "You will, James, you will." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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