syndromet Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I know this is the wrong forum, but I thought you might could help... I'm planing on building a glass harmonica, with twelwe wine glasses tuned to pitch with water. Would it be possible to use piezo-pickups under each glass and make it electrical`? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclej Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 that's an interesting project..i don't know why it wouldn't work..piezos work on vibrations and the glass itself should provide that..the challenge would probably be getting everything into some sort of balance as it reaches the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 that's an interesting project..i don't know why it wouldn't work..piezos work on vibrations and the glass itself should provide that..the challenge would probably be getting everything into some sort of balance as it reaches the amp. ← Ohhh.... I haven't thought of that. Any good ideas for how this could be taken care of? Thanx for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 You could use this simple FET mixer - just use 12 inputs instead of the 2 shown. My main concern with this project other than it actually working would be isolating the piezo elements from picking up noise when you touch the glass(es) with your hands or something. The other thing is placement of the pizeo elements as well as the actual type of piezos used. I'm sure those two things will be a trial and error process. Good luck and let us know if you get it all to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 You could use this simple FET mixer - just use 12 inputs instead of the 2 shown. My main concern with this project other than it actually working would be isolating the piezo elements from picking up noise when you touch the glass(es) with your hands or something. The other thing is placement of the pizeo elements as well as the actual type of piezos used. I'm sure those two things will be a trial and error process. Good luck and let us know if you get it all to work! ← Yeah, I guess I just have to try out different places to put the pickups, and hope I end up with something useable... As for the mixer, What a great idea!! Thanx a lot for the link. So, this is what I have decided on: 12 glasses from ikea, witch will be tuned in c major 12 piezo buzzers, cut them open and use them as transducers 12 channel mixer with 12 potts controlling volume. Also thinking of adding tone pots. Internal preamp (http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=21091) Jack out Anyway, I still have some questions. What will be the best way to mount the glasses to the board? will the glasses sing if I glue them on top? Is there any piezo buzzers that are better than others as transducers? should it have any special configurations for voltage or anything? Looking forward to this project, and hope that it eventualy will work. Kan jo think of anything cooler than singing glasses through a bit of delay and reverb? Thanks for help this far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 What will be the best way to mount the glasses to the board? will the glasses sing if I glue them on top? The bottom. If you do it at the top, they won't sing anymore. Not sure on the piezo buzzer part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Also consider using something other than water for tuning. Mabye some sort of mineral spirit or something that won't evaperate and change your "tuning" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Also consider using something other than water for tuning. Mabye some sort of mineral spirit or something that won't evaperate and change your "tuning". Not a bad idea, but the change in density probably will change the sound, possibly by quite a lot. That's nothing that a fill line on the glass couldn't help control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Hi, I'm realy thankfull for all the help this far. Just a fast update: I have decided to buy theese galasses. I allready have a couple of them, and they sing wonderfully Glasses They are also tuneable to an octave. I have also decided to change the preamp to the Fetzer valve from runoffgroove, with a master volume ant tone-controll. Have anyone tried this with piezo pickups? Are there any preamps that are better for this purpose? Here is a quick drawing of what the instrument should look like. Any ideas are verry velcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Before going too far with the electronics side of it, stick a piezo to a glass to see if it doesn't interfere with the vibrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Before going too far with the electronics side of it, stick a piezo to a glass to see if it doesn't interfere with the vibrations. No reason why it shouldn't pick up the sound - they can reproduce frequencies from near DC to 100kHz. The real problem may lie in being able to attach the piezo element efficiently enough to the glass to get any good sound/sound levels out of it. Maybe a better place for a piezo element might be right where the stem meets the bell. That shouldn't affect the sound of the glass too much, I think. I'm not sure if the piezo would work on the bottom or not as it may not get enough vibrations transferred down there. I think it should work, though - but I won't bet the farm on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Before going too far with the electronics side of it, stick a piezo to a glass to see if it doesn't interfere with the vibrations. No reason why it shouldn't pick up the sound - they can reproduce frequencies from near DC to 100kHz. The real problem may lie in being able to attach the piezo element efficiently enough to the glass to get any good sound/sound levels out of it. Maybe a better place for a piezo element might be right where the stem meets the bell. That shouldn't affect the sound of the glass too much, I think. I'm not sure if the piezo would work on the bottom or not as it may not get enough vibrations transferred down there. I think it should work, though - but I won't bet the farm on that... ← As soon as I get the piezo transducer, and get the preamp asembeled, I will try sticking the transducer to the glass in different possitions to see what makes the best sound. As you said earlier, this will be a try and fail situation, and I hope I eventualy will end up with something that makes a good enough signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 I hope it works. It's an interesting project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 You could use this simple FET mixer - just use 12 inputs instead of the 2 shown. My main concern with this project other than it actually working would be isolating the piezo elements from picking up noise when you touch the glass(es) with your hands or something. The other thing is placement of the pizeo elements as well as the actual type of piezos used. I'm sure those two things will be a trial and error process. Good luck and let us know if you get it all to work! Hi again. I was wondering if it is possible to change the 2N3819 Junction FET transistor with a j201 in this little mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Marossy Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I was wondering if it is possible to change the 2N3819 Junction FET transistor with a j201 in this little mixer. You should be able to do that without too much trouble. I would suggest using a 10K trimpot on the source of the FET instead of the 6.8K resistor. That'll give you the ability to dial it in to the J201s characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripper Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) I don't know how I missed this thread! I tried this about 6 months ago with a cheap set of Kmart wine glasses that "sang" a little when rubbed with a wet finger. I used the Pintech pickup from our singer's kalimba plugged into our PA mixer. I held the pickup on by hand at first and it had a lot of trouble getting a good vibration consistantly. Next I put it on with some potter's clay shaped in a pyramid and it worked well at the top/center of the stem but it fell off about every 2 minutes. Went back to beer and haven't tried it since. I held it down by the base while I played and it didn't seem to hurt the sound so I guess epoxy used to hold them in place would be OK but changing a broken register might be a bit of a booger. I think a routed circle for the bases to sit down in and holding them down with 3 fender washers and screws would be better. Wine ROCKS! Edited January 13, 2006 by gripper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biz Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Heres an idea that could work perhaps, what do you think. Sandwich one piezo p/u between 2 boards and glue the glasses to the top. If I understand piezo transducers right, it’s a pressure sensitive plastic that produces a current. This is why they install it between the bridge and sound board of an acoustic. This type will produce the best results I think. The other type p/u is the stick on or glued in the bridge with an electromagnetic type style which when the diaphragm is shook will produce a current. This type could be the easiest to use. Only thing could be the closest glass to it would be the loudest. anyways fun project, good luck with it Edited January 13, 2006 by Biz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 gripper: You have actuly tried it, and got it to work? Is the pintec pickup a piezo-style pickup? Man, this got me exited, and I can't wait to try this out! Thanx for great input. Biz: I have also thought about using just one pickup under all the glasses, but I belive the vibrations in the glasses are to small for this to have any effect. That is why I have decided to use one pickup for each glass. I belive this will make it easyier to get a good sound from the glasses. I also belive it will look much better on stage, with all the knobs and stuff, wich is partly why I'm making this thing. Anyway, I'm thankfull for your input! Keep it comming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripper Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Yeah I tried it while drinking wine with our drummer several months ago. I just graduated from SIU and now have lots of time until I report to reality at Dahlmer-Chrysler. I am going to set this experiment back up this afternoon wilst we celebrate. The Pintech is a piezo that likes to be mounted to a flat surface with double-sided tape. A cheap electro cartridge might work and would be a whole bunch cheaper. By the way, Dago red is the best liquid to use to tune. C-K Mondavi Fortissimo is my personal fav. Pray for sharp notes! Sharp notes ROCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 (edited) Yeah I tried it while drinking wine with our drummer several months ago. I just graduated from SIU and now have lots of time until I report to reality at Dahlmer-Chrysler. I am going to set this experiment back up this afternoon wilst we celebrate. The Pintech is a piezo that likes to be mounted to a flat surface with double-sided tape. A cheap electro cartridge might work and would be a whole bunch cheaper. By the way, Dago red is the best liquid to use to tune. C-K Mondavi Fortissimo is my personal fav. Pray for sharp notes! Sharp notes ROCK! Wow! Congrats on the graduation!! It would be great if you could tell me how you experimentations turns out. I've thought of tuning the glasses with wine myself, but I've figgured it wont stay tuned for long if I do. I belive the wine will just dissapear in some strange way.... On the other hand, it would be great to have a drinkable instrument!! As for the sharp notes, I'm not quite shure what I want. I'm gonna use this in a progband, playing music like the early king crimson. Our sound is realy mellow, so I kind of hope I kan have a clear, mellow sound, if you know what I mean. Edited January 14, 2006 by syndromet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksound Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Dahlmer-Chrysler You have a very bright future ahead of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripper Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) Boy, do I have too much spare time! We set up the wine glass with a RadioShack 273-073 transducer element (disassembled) and a RadioShack 270-092C electret condenser capsule and the Pintech AP-10. The pintech is WAY fussy but has nice tone: good bass. The pieso element is WAY trebly. I put a .022 cap from red to black to trim off some highs but it didn't help as much as I hoped. I made a little power circuit for the electret to run off a 9-volt battery and found a beautiful signal that got a bunch better with that .022 cap put from after the coupling cap to ground. WAY cool. Now comes the good stuff. We put the pieso under the base of the glass and got a weak but quiet output. Put it on the stem and it got some better. After messing around it ended up taped right at the largest part of the globe. Then I tried the electret. Amazing! Beautiful full sound! Your finger technique needs to be good as it picks up squeaks from your finger if it is too dry or you press too hard. Mount the glasses anyway you want because it doesn't hurt the sound. Tape and the mass of the electret capsule mounted just below the fattest part of the glass has NO affect on the output! We ran it through the Valve Junior so we had no tone control at all. Didn't need it! Very little feedback trouble like we had with the pieso. Wine glasses ROCK! Edited January 15, 2006 by gripper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 (edited) Boy, do I have too much spare time! We set up the wine glass with a RadioShack 273-073 transducer element (disassembled) and a RadioShack 270-092C electret condenser capsule and the Pintech AP-10. The pintech is WAY fussy but has nice tone: good bass. The pieso element is WAY trebly. I put a .022 cap from red to black to trim off some highs but it didn't help as much as I hoped. I made a little power circuit for the electret to run off a 9-volt battery and found a beautiful signal that got a bunch better with that .022 cap put from after the coupling cap to ground. WAY cool. Now comes the good stuff. We put the pieso under the base of the glass and got a weak but quiet output. Put it on the stem and it got some better. After messing around it ended up taped right at the largest part of the globe. Then I tried the electret. Amazing! Beautiful full sound! Your finger technique needs to be good as it picks up squeaks from your finger if it is too dry or you press too hard. Mount the glasses anyway you want because it doesn't hurt the sound. Tape and the mass of the electret capsule mounted just below the fattest part of the glass has NO affect on the output! We ran it through the Valve Junior so we had no tone control at all. Didn't need it! Very little feedback trouble like we had with the pieso. Wine glasses ROCK! This is great news!!! You have been so helpfull, and I thank God you finaly found this tread. When you tried mounting the piezo on the glass and got amazing sound, what element did you use? As english is not my main language, I have some slight problems with understanding how you hooked things up. I would have loved it if you could draw up a quick scetch of how you hooked things up. I'm planning to buy 20 piezo-buffers, so that I have some spare ones for my guitar. I'm also going to buy som e spare parts when I order the parts for the preamp, so that I have enough to a couple of preamps. A j201 is 10$ here in norway, and verry hard to find, as is all the other parts needed. That means that I'll order all the part from the land of the brave... Anyone knows of a good place that ship internationally? Edited January 15, 2006 by syndromet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gripper Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 The piezo was NOT the pickup that worked best. The electret capsules from RadioShack ($2.99) were hands down the best. I shall now attempt to post pictures. http://57south.net/cruise/nfpicturepro/thu...ils.php?album=7 Pictures ROCK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syndromet Posted January 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 The piezo was NOT the pickup that worked best. The electret capsules from RadioShack ($2.99) were hands down the best. I shall now attempt to post pictures. http://57south.net/cruise/nfpicturepro/thu...ils.php?album=7 Pictures ROCK! Oh yeah, pictures rock!!! Thanks so much for those pics. They were realy helpfull. Now i got to find a place where they sell electret capsules and ship to norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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