Druss Posted March 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I did some more work on "Snaga" today so I have some more mistakes to add The first mistake was actually made during the glue up of the body blanks, the wood has two knots that I want to keep in the upper wing the problem I had was the glue seeped through the knots http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0051.jpg and I'm just now removing the excess glue. I found out using a sanding block doesn't work very good it just melts the glue and spreads it around http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0286.jpg so I tried a scraper and that was very slow and even when it looked like I got it all off it would show up when I rubbed it down with a damp rag http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0292.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0293.jpg I ended up using some Goof Off http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0294.jpg and it seems to have worked unless I wake up tomorrow to find it has spontaneously combusted or something. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0296.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0298.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 My next mistake is a little more serious, I let my bit guide drift above my template the coolest part is I let it happen TWICE! I was trying let it ride high on my template so I wouldn't take to much wood at one time. I had the router locked at the depth I wanted but I guess it vibrated it's self loose It looks like Ive got a hole lot of sanding to do. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0300.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0304.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0305.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 My next mistake is a little more serious, I let my bit guide drift above my template the coolest part is I let it happen TWICE! I was trying let it ride high on my template so I wouldn't take to much wood at one time. I had the router locked at the depth I wanted but I guess it vibrated it's self loose It looks like Ive got a whole lot of sanding to do. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0300.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0304.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0305.jpg Been there done that... Just a part of the learning process, what I did was forget to snap the lock back in place and the depth wandered, and rip.. the bearing wasn't riding on the template and I routed into the body and template like you did. What kind of router are you using anyway? Maybe there is something wrong with it. I guess you could make another template that's smaller and start over? That way you can use the same wood again. Good luck and be careful with those routers, they are dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lietuvis Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 This is an interesting build... I like your idea. I'm working on my first build as well, and it is very similar to yours, in theory. I'm also using the blank Carvin neck-thru and two identical Mahogany sides, but my design is a V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 This is the router I have http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reaver1/165667_4.jpg it's only a year old but I guess the lock could be wearing out. It's going to have a pretty wide and deep beveled edge so I was thinking I might be able to fix it when I do my bevel. Making a smaller template is probably the right way to go so If every thing doesn't get blown away by these storms tonight I may make a smaller template like you sugested.Thanks... Lietuvis good luck with your "first" build, even with all the mistakes I've made I'm still enjoying building my own guitar and can't wait to start my second one a bass probably. PS: Don't let your router rise above your template Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 .....Snip...... Also, you want to apply glue to ONE of the two gluing surfaces, not both. A nice, thin, even amount. Just enough to cover the surface entirely. A bit too much is better than a bit too little, assuming good clamping practice, and you get a feel for how much is enough by gluing more things together. Mattia, not to pick nits, but if you really want a good glue joint you should put glue on both surfaces. This way both surfaces are at the equal with each other. Yes, applying glue to one surface will work in most cases but if the strongest joint is to be accomplished for most types of glue, then both surfaces should have it applied. I agree that too much glue can and may weaken a joint if too much clamping pressure is applied, also not enough glue is a concern. Most people just pour it on and clamp away. I suggest that eveyone READ THE FINE PRINT on the glue they are using. Also maybe do some research on the manufactors website. Some real insite on the uses and proper methods of glueing. May even save some $ in the long run. Again I'm not trying to slam you, just trying to educate anyone that will listen and hopefully help and give everyone the chance for less possible failure when it counts. Sincerely, Mike K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkside Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Looking good ....But ...Aye Aye! Here's to your learning experience. its those mistakes that makes those experienced builder's....Oh...a planner, a router, bits and blades, sand paper, you know all that stuff that adds up to more than ya can afford....making that guitar cheaper to build? I think you will find its more the satisfaction of building an instrument of your creation...the accomplishment! as well as hanging on to those tools for the next project....stay cool -darkside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 I wouldn't be too quick to blame the collet, actually; you sure you had enough of the bit's shaft in there (All the way in, back it out about 1/8" of an inch is the ideal), and that you locked it down tightly? That the collet's clean? 9 times out of 10, it's user error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 My next mistake is a little more serious, I let my bit guide drift above my template the coolest part is I let it happen TWICE! I was trying let it ride high on my template so I wouldn't take to much wood at one time. I had the router locked at the depth I wanted but I guess it vibrated it's self loose It looks like Ive got a hole lot of sanding to do. Yep, that's why I practiced on scrap a lot...although I've still had that happen a couple of times anyway--usually toward the end of the route when I'm getting impatient. It's the toughest thing for me --forcing myself to stop working when I feel myself beginning to push too hard at it. A 10 minute break does a world of good for getting yourself refocused. On my first (cheapo) router, the depth lock stripped out pretty quickly. Eventually the plastic handle broke off. I eventually replace the screw with a different one, and use a plier to tighten it down. That took care of the slippage problem. But when that router died I bought a better one, and so far so good, no slippage. Oh, and about glue, here's what I read: that you can apply glue to the surfaces of the wood, then wait a bit to allow that to seep into the wood, then apply a new layer of glue --this way, the glue has a chance to combine with the fibers for a good depth into the glue, makes a much stronger joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 I did like Guitarfrenzy suggested and cut the tear-outs out of the template, I think it actually looks better now because it added more curves. (I rubbed it down with a damp rag to get a better look at the grain pattern) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0320.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0317.jpg I cut the lower wing out now I have to make up my mind on how I want to bevel the horns/blades, thats what I'll do tonight. I'm going to try using a rasp for the first time so all the scrap 2x4's in the shed are in trouble, if it doesn't work for me I'll just have to use a router. Here are some pics of both wings, I turned my template where the grains would kind of be running away from the neck. The body looks wide it's 16 3/8" but the bevel is going to be pretty deep 1 1/2" to 2" so I think I'm going to be ok as far as the width goes. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0323.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0336.jpg thats not a chip out on the horn it's a dry spot http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0337.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0339.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 My plan is to take the edges down with a round over bit then work down to the cut line with a rasp I've already used the round over bit on the front and back. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0351.jpg And this is what it looks like after the rasp. (scrap Wood) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0345.jpg I still need to do some practicing but at least I feel like I can do it now. My work week starts to day so I'm done until Sunday, that sucks, sucks, sucks!!!!!! I want to build my guitar damn it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) Using a rasp for the bevels and they are turning out exactly how I want want them. I really had my doubts/concerns about being able to use one with out ruining the blades but I'm just going slow and doing a little at a time then taking a break (like right now) and it's slowly starting to look like an axe. Here are some pics, I haven't done any smoothing out yet it's all rough you can see some lines I need to straighten out by sanding but I guess that's to be expected. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0378.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0356.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0360.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0362.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0374.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0370.jpg I forgot to mention I figured out what was wrong with my router. The leaver you lock it in place with somehow got out of whack, I just took it off turned it a notch or two and put it back on it works fine now. Edited March 19, 2006 by Druss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Mattia, not to pick nits, but if you really want a good glue joint you should put glue on both surfaces. This way both surfaces are at the equal with each other. Yes, applying glue to one surface will work in most cases but if the strongest joint is to be accomplished for most types of glue, then both surfaces should have it applied. I agree that too much glue can and may weaken a joint if too much clamping pressure is applied, also not enough glue is a concern. Most people just pour it on and clamp away. I suggest that eveyone READ THE FINE PRINT on the glue they are using. Also maybe do some research on the manufactors website. Some real insite on the uses and proper methods of glueing. May even save some $ in the long run. Again I'm not trying to slam you, just trying to educate anyone that will listen and hopefully help and give everyone the chance for less possible failure when it counts. Sincerely, Mike K Well, in my experience, that just ain't so. Not with titebond, not with superglue, not with epoxy. Even amount on one surface, sufficient clamping, and you get a perfectly lovely, strong, near-invisible joint. Most woodworking glues (AR/PVA and hide) work best if there's a tiny, tiny amount of glue left in the joint. You want almost nothing in there; the glue itself has very little cohesive (inherent) strength. Also, Franklin's reccomended clamping pressures for titebond would require slathering it on thick and using INSANE amounts of pressure, way more than most of us tend to achieve, but putting it on thinner (nice even layer) and only on one surface and clamping with clamps mere mortals own (y'know, just tight. And I normally use wooden cam clamps, or go-bars for acoustics) works things out just fine. I asked Franklin about this once, and they admitted thinner layer and less pressure would get you a perfectly strong joint, and my 'joint breaking' tests bear this out. I've never managed to starve a joint, and I shoot for minimal squeezeout all around. That's my sign of 'enough'. I've slowly backed off on excessive glue usage that caused, well, 3/4 of the glue I applied to leak out the sides. Back of my titebond bottle says 'apply glue to surface', singular, in any case (although the spanish has it as a plural, but I'm inclined to distrust the translation), and applying thick layers to two mating surfaces? That would make lining up pieces unnecessarily messy, difficult (titebond's slippery), and require much, much stronger clamping to get all that excess glue OUT. A layer applied and spread with fingers to a normally porous wood (I use a bit more for scarf joints, because of the end grain factor) should not suck into the wood so far that it'll starve the thing. Just my 2 cents. And yes, I do read manufacturer's instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Well at lest we can all agree that my gluing method is the wrong way. I'm almost ready to glue the wings to the neck but I'm going to do a lot of reading through old threads first because I defiantly want to do this right. Here's a pic of my jointers http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0409.jpg the wings are pretty straight so I don't have to much work to do on them. I got the inside bevels done they still need sanding but the hole thing does. I used the router up to the edges then used the rasp to taper the bevel. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0400.jpg upper http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0411.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0410.jpg lower http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0412.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hey my jointer is very similar to yours! Mine is just adhesive backed sandpaper stuck to the top of my table saw. I slide the fence up next to it to create the illusion of squareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Hey my jointer is very similar to yours! Mine is just adhesive backed sandpaper stuck to the top of my table saw. I slide the fence up next to it to create the illusion of squareness. I'm glad you posted this I just upgraded my jointer now I'm in the big leagues , I know I've read it before but I guess it slipped my mind. I used double sided tape on the corners of my sand paper and taped it to my MDF table then used a level for my fence . I marked the low spots with a sharpie and just kept checking it and it turned out great, now I can't see any light between the wings and neck when I hold it up to a light bulb. Do you do any thing to your wings before gluing? I used medium 100 grit sandpaper and the wings are pretty smooth, I don't know if they should be prepped/roughed somehow before gluing. Thanks again thats another step done. I hope there are no copyright infringements http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0419.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0420.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 I hope there are no copyright infringements Me too! I ripped the idea from someone else along the way. Glad it worked out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) Have I got the record for the most pics of a build yet? I know I'm posting a lot of pics of each step but by doing so you guy's have saved me a lot of trouble so here are some more.... I had to take 1/4" off the thickness of the neck (I just thought doing the body bevels was scary) so I planed it down with my router http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0422.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0423.jpg This is how much I took off: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0426.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0427.jpg I left just enough thickness so I can sand the router marks off, and to get the right thickness I'll probably tape sandpaper to MDF like I did my glue surfaces. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0427.jpg I cut most of the excess neck length of, it's starting to look like Snaga. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0428.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0429.jpg Edited March 26, 2006 by Druss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 It's coming together nicely. Would fit nicely in an epic metal band. How many pic's do you have total? I have about 37 on my fretless build, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Man I'm sofa king we tarted!!! I didn't get my wings even during my glue up, I don't know how I let it happen but it did. I guess It was because of the crazy angles my clamps were in. I'm going to be able to fix it but it just blows to have to do it. I'll just have to redo the inside bevels with a rasp to even the wings up, next time I'm only gluing one wing on at a time. Yesterday when I noticed the screw up I felt like I had just lost a pet or something today I feel a little better about it after staring at it and thinking it over I have no doubt I can fix them but still, If I could reach them I'd kick my self in the nuts! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0449.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0450.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Reave...ga/100_0453.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott from _actual time_ Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 (edited) I didn't get my wings even during my glue up... If I could reach them I'd kick my self in the nuts! dude, i feel your pain. but your wings still look pretty good, and definately fixable. a couple years ago, the wings on my maple V slipped before i noticed it, one of them about two inches. wood glue sets up a lot faster than i ever realized. i had to soak that side of the guitar in the laundry sink to get that wing off. i wish i'd taken a pic of that. Edited March 29, 2006 by scott from _actual time_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 (edited) Yeah the glue set way faster than I thought it would, I bet I dry clamped it about ten times before I used glue and there was a lot more slipping and sliding than I was ready for I guess. It's a good thing I have a little experience with a rasp now I think thats how I'm going to try to fix it, maybe completely round the upper and lower inside bevels. I wont be able to work on them until Sunday so I have time to think about it but right now that sounds like my best bet. It's only off 1/16th of an inch but I can see every time I look at it. Edited March 30, 2006 by Druss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 the thing that caught my eye, is that mioghty fine p-bass, what is that top? its sorta like,pearl..but looks like spalted maple marquetry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druss Posted March 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 the thing that caught my eye, is that mioghty fine p-bass, what is that top? its sorta like,pearl..but looks like spalted maple marquetry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 thats killer except maybe the big burn marks lol still awsome none the less,they look like veneers/inlays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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