exhaust_49 Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) I will be installing a 1 piece 50's wraparound from pigtail (ala junior) on a homemade lp and would like some directions on the drilling dimentions. How far do I set the low e side of the bridge back? ect. That kind of thing. Edited March 14, 2006 by exhaust_49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrathofraf Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 low E is 1/8" back -RAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 thanks raf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 BEFORE you drill...ask Pigtail. Some pre-compensated bridges are designed to be isntalled with the posts pretty much straight. So, y'know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted March 14, 2006 Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 Is this the one your talking about? Pigtail Wraparound Bridge? If so, then yeah your going to have to angle it like was previously mentioned, Mattia did bring up a good point though, since some are made different than others, it's always best to know what works for the bridge your using. Check out Stew Mac's Fret Calculator it will not only tell you where every fret should be located, but it will tell you where each particular bridge should be mounted. In your case, the bass side post needs to be mounted 1/8" further from the nut than the treble side post. Remember to get everything aligned properly before mounted the bridge, it's very important. Good luck.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 No I'm talking about Pigtails 50 replica bridge http://www.pigtailmusic.com/Products.php .Its solid so I wanted to get it just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrathofraf Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 with that bridge i would say 1/8" back, but wait for some one else to reply. I have never had any personal experience with that bridge. -RAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 I emailed Dan Erlewine with this question and I'll go with what he says (him being the guitar tech all guitar tech's look up to!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 I emailed Dan Erlewine with this question and I'll go with what he says (him being the guitar tech all guitar tech's look up to!) You'd figure Pigtail would be able to help you out, have you tried contacting them?...for the price they're charging for that thing, they ought to come to your house and install it for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 I emailed pigtail about it but they were not much help, told me to contact Dan Erlewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Yeah, Steve is a machinist and he builds those parts as replacements on vintage guitars. They are are exacting duplications made in the USA, hence the expense. You can buy close enough pieces made in china for a fraction, but if you've got a 59 Les Paul or a 56 Gold Top, then you probably want the best pieces money can buy. $125.00 is nothing compared to the value of the guitar. Also, it turns out that most historic owners are willing to pay just about anything for vintage correct parts. That's not why Steve does it however, this price probably barely covers his labor. How many of you manufacture bridges? Would you give your labor for free? How would you feed your family? Please think before posting. Also, Steve again is a machinist, not a luthier or guitar repairman. He can make exact duplicates of any metal or plastic part, but his expertise does not extend to custom guitar building, nor does he claim to. Can you guess, Steve is a friend of mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Can you guess, Steve is a friend of mine? Anyway, exhaust, Pïgtail has a forum through its site, looks like the guy handles questions himself, so you might get your answer there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Im arleady on that forum but the replys are so slow (I just got a reply from one question I posted last Wed). I've already emailed Dan and I'm waiting for a reply (honestly I would trust Dan's answer to be the correct answer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 There's an original up for grabs on ebay 50s wraparound --bidding's up past $400 so far...so that Pigtail is starting to look like a bargain! But this raises a few questions for me, since I'm planning my own LP Jr type project. For one thing, did you buy this because you just want to replicate a 50s Gibson as close as possible, or because you think there's an advantage in not having the intonated version (since Gibson changed for that version too)? For another, I'm looking at the photos of that 50s bridge, and I'm looking at the stop tailpiece I took off of one of my guitars...and the biggest difference I find is that the stop tailpiece isn't drilled for adjusting screws. Seems to me like one could tap those into the tailpiece and end up with something extremely similar to that 50s bridge. That puts the groove for the ball ends on the wrong side... but that's not a big deal, so what if the ball ends stick out a bit. And it's be easy enough to mill the tailpiece for those anyway, and shave off a bit of weight in the process... Just my odd curiousity at play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setch Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Ask your local repair place for a stoptail like that - I got one for the princely sum of £5. They upgrade to a compensated bridge, and usually keep the old one. Idch, the stoptail and vintage wraparound are basically identical, so you can do what you suggested. Most of my stoptails have recesses both front and back to accomodate the ball end of the string. The only problem with drilling and tapping intonation screws is the weak spot it makes in the plating - so a dabbing of CA or shellac to protect the edges of the hole can't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) Mickguard, I wanted to use the 50's wraparound for 4 reasons. I find that the tuno o matic sucks a lot of tone due to the added weight and the fact that all of the strings vibrations are not as concentrated to one spot (tune o matic - 4 posts to distritbute the vibrations vs. 2 with the wraparound - do the math) I was also comparing the tone of a tune o matic to a 54' oxblood (with wraparound) and the wraparound had a much more woody sounding tone, the tune o matic sounded kinda sterile in comparison. Go to www.gibson.com and you'll see what I mean. The fact that with the tune o matic you can get your innotation bang on and that your innotation is slightly off with the wraparound makes a difference too. The tune o matic sounds a little sterile and for some reason having the innotation slightly off with the wraparound gives the guitar more character, it sounds fuller. One other reason I like the wraparound is that it is so simple. Think about it, what can go wrong with the wraparound? At worst you'll strip the innotation adjustment on either post. With the tune o matic you can have buzzing saddles, not enough room to perfectly innotate, striped screws (6 of em') not to mention since there are so many parts that can move, you also loose small amounts of vibrational energy due to pieces buzzing and moving around. You can take full advantage of the resonant properties using one solid bar of metal. And if anyone in intrested I recieved Dan's answer. On a guitar with a true 24.750" scale, place the treble post 24.811" (+/- .030") from the nut and place your bass post 1/16" - 1/8" further back. Edited March 17, 2006 by exhaust_49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Well, I'm a big fan of Johnny Thunders, so I'll agree with most of that I took the badass off my Melody Maker a while back and replaced it with a compensated wraparound --instant improvement! I actually put the badass on my new guitar, but I'm going to replace that with the new compensated wraparound I just got --although I'm kind of interested in converted the stop tailpiece I have to the 50s style wraparound...doesn't look like it'd be too difficult to do...(maybe I'll do it for the next guitar). I'm all for simplicity. My major issue with the wraparound is string breakage -- the badass is fitted with string savers and I never break strings with it. But I break strings on every other guitar. I'm working on my technique, but still...just can't help myself...Wish there was a way to coat the surface of the wraparound to ease the stress on the strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exhaust_49 Posted March 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) I don't know about your tequinech but I haven't broken a string on either of my guitars in over 5 years. You could be just playing your electrics like there acoustics. That was my problem too till I learned to reconize that they there two different beast that must be played differently. Also what gauge strings do you use? I play 12's on my acoustic and 9.5's on my electric. Maby you should go up a gauge? Edited March 17, 2006 by exhaust_49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 In the 10 years I've been playing gutiars, I've broken a total of 3 strings. All on tuning up too fast/tuning up with old, nasty, needed-to-be-replaced strings. I don't really dig in that hard, though. That's with 13's on acoustic, 10-52 on electrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 I've been playing over 30 years... can't remember the last time I broke a string. Maybe six years ago. Whether I dig in or play soft, doesn't matter - they rarely break on me. Ernie Ball .010 - .052 on the electric, Dean Markley Alchemy GoldBronze .011 - .054 for the acoustic (BTW those Alchemy strings are the absolute best I've ever heard, no kidding). Wow, mattia - 13s on your acoustics? Ouch. I'm rambling a bit off-topic here... My son and I made an interesting discovery of sorts... We used to put 12s on his acoustic, thinking medium-lights would have better tone and sustain than the lights. Then one day we were out of town, and the local music store was out of 12s in the brand we like, so we bought some 11s. What we found was (we think) that the extra tension of the heavier strings was choking the top (case in point - it always rang better when he tuned down a half-step). The 11s ring out much nicer and sustain for days, plus they are a bit easier on the fingers. It's the opposite on my electric - heavy strings sound much better. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pr3Va1L Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 (edited) Well, about string breakage, the only strings I've ever broke are because I have a floyd rose bridge, never because of my picking... I use 11s on it though... Anyways, I don't see bad intonation as a good thing, personally ... Edited March 17, 2006 by Pr3Va1L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 I've always been a string-breaker...since way back in the 80s the first time I tried to play guitar. It's not the reason I stopped playing though I'm better about it now, but I still have to worry about it...I just get carried away sometimes and just start whamming on the thing...(I'm not playing John Denver music...)...I even manage to break strings with string saver saddles (on my tele that is). Part of it is that I play strings to death, and only change them every couple of months if I don't have a show to do. Usually I'll break the high E or B, but sometimes the D too... Like I said, I'm working on my technique now that I've been taking lessons, and I'm getting more control of my picking now. Still got a ways to go though. The big worry is that I'll break a string while I'm on stage... I use .10s - .46s, Dean Markleys lately, I've been having good luck with them, so I'll probably stick with them. Ernie Balls were okay, although they seemed to break more often. The worse were the GHS I tried, they seemed to snap right away on me. And yeah, I know there are people out there who never break strings....wish I had that soft touch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 The big worry is that I'll break a string while I'm on stage... Only thing worse is breaking a string while you're on stage and playing your guitar with the floating trem... Why don't you build a Rocket 350-12... then you'll have spares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickguard Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Only thing worse is breaking a string while you're on stage and playing your guitar with the floating trem... I did that with my strat...couldn't believe it! I'd never had a strat before, so I didn't know what breaking a string means --on my other guitars, I break a string, the other strings stay reasonably in tune. Well, after that one I blocked the trem and replaced the saddles with string savers. Although blocking the trem doesn't really help, breaking a string still knocks the whole guitar out of tune. Thanks, Leo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikhailgtrski Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 It's even worse with a Floyd Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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