westhemann Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 man am i having troubles.i am trying to attach a veneer to my bolt neck double cutaway project and i can't keep the venner from curling.the problem is that it is krevazinga(i think i spelled it wrong)it is a type of bubinga and it is very porous and hard to work.the tutorial with the sandbags doesn't work and i have even taken a false body and used it to sandwich the veneer with spool clamps and a bar clamp and i get bad results no matter what i try.i even tried ironing it the night before i applied it and putting a board with over 100 pounds of weight on it. anyway do any of you have tricks that you use for stubborn veneer?from now on i will only use 3/8 or thicker caps but the figure on this veneer is so kick ass i want to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarfrenzy Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Look at the bottom of this link from Project Guitar to find a place that shows you the blueprint to building a good vacuum press... Haven't built one yet.. but planning on it... http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/tutorial3.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 thanks dude. so i'm looking around at vacuum presses and i find this one so anyone think this is a good system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Lessee... If your problem is curling due to one side of the veneer being wet with glue while the other side is dry, take a mister/spritzer pump bottle and (lightly) spritz the dry side with water to flatten things out. If you go too heavy, the glue will use the water as a channel to creep up into the top (sometimes) Personally, I haven't tried the sandbag way, I developed the way I do it a few years ago, and I use a 1/2" thick piece of Maple and clamp as you described. I try to place my clamps around the center area first then add clamps moving toward the outside so I don't trap any glue in puddles underneath, FWIW. I will normally have about 15-20 clamps on it when I'm done, and it's gotta be a really hard and stiff hardwood like Maple to get really good results (I've found anyway) and a LOT of clamps. As many as you can get on there. I've got some gorgeous Waterfall Bubinga that I've done that way, it didn't give me much trouble...BTW, before I put the Maple down, I tape a piece of wax paper to the underside, so me no get veneer-glued-to-the-clamper-board syndrome... If the conditions are right, I also will use an iron and iron it down. You mix up some Titebond with water, apply to both surfaces to be glued with a paintbrush, let dry, lightly sand, then iron them together within a few hours of the glue drying. That way has it's good points and bad points like anything else. You need to pre-iron the veneer tho, 'cause it'll shrink with the iron, especially doing booked halves...one-piece probably wouldn't make a difference. Hey PS, I just remembered when I was doing the Waterfall Bubinga, I remember using the iron on it, and I remember hearing a cracking sound, I thought it was the iron travelling over the veneer, but it was the veneer actually drying out and cracking and splitting due to the extreme heat. Bubinga is funny like that I guess. Does any of that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 well i tried all that and i got it reasonably tight but i am still having to sand like crazy.but i have a ton of this veneer so i think i should invest in that $350 vacuum press. the problem i guess is that it is very stiff but very wrinkled and porous and all that but hey the glue did creep up to the top in some places.how do i get it where i can stain it?just sand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 In my experience, the wrinkling comes from either too much glue, the clamper board is not hard enough, or not enough clamps. You get those three things right, it won't wrinkle on ya. The amount of glue (I've found) is pretty damn critical with veneer. Too much, you get wrinkles with glue puddles trapped underneath the wrinkles. Too little, and it'll come back up in spots when you spray finish on it. The amount of glue is part of the art of veneering I've found. If you have enough clamps and a hard enough wood, it'll come out flat as a freakin' pancake every time. I'm too cheap to spend that much(!) I'll always keep at it until I find a way to do something with what I have around me, but I also have wanted to try a vacuum press for some wilder ideas...it is a pretty cool thing to have around. Usually yes, just sand it good. I can't remember having any blotch problems (that I can remember anyway...) There is a way to find out what is causing the wrinkle. If you take a brand new X-acto blade and cut a slit into the wrinkle, if you can squeeze out any glue, you used too much glue, or trapped it. If you can't get any glue out of it, you probably need a harder clamper board or more clamps. Believe me, I've been there and it has driven me crazy until I finally figured out what was going wrong and it came down to Maple clamper, lots of clamps, and the right amount of glue = pancake dead-flat results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 okay well i guess i just have to keep practicing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 One last symptom... If it's not really a 'wrinkle' but a 'lifted spot' (blister) that didn't go down, that's usually a sign of not enough clamps, not hard enough clamper also...FWIW. If when you press on it it feels squishy or soft in any way, that's trapped glue spots. If when you press on it it goes down but doesn't stick, that's probably an uneven clamping pressure-related thing. Those kind of spots is where a super-hard clamper like Maple comes in. If you don't use Maple, you need some other hardwood that's REALLY hard and un-flexing, like Paduak, Ash, Walnut, Cherry. One of the really 'hard' woods. I think out of all of those a nice chunk of regular Maple is the cheapest (most plentiful) option. Gotta be 1/2" thick or better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 i used 7/8" mahogany,7 spool clamps,and one bar clamp in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 If you can pin the veneer in place you can always use a "Space Bag" to vacuum it down and hold it. There like $8 at Walmart over in the laundry supplies section, that and a shop vac and your in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 If you can pin the veneer in place you can always use a "Space Bag" to vacuum it down and hold it. There like $8 at Walmart over in the laundry supplies section, that and a shop vac and your in business. how much pressure does that apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 That I couldn't really say but it's pretty tight, you just suck all the air out of the bag and it's good to go, plus you could leave it for weeks if you really needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 sounds like i'll have to try it.what have i got to lose?i need a shop vac anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 how much pressure does that apply? 14.7 pounds per square inch. Regardless of vacuum or bag size, a vacuum press is ALWAYS the same pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 oh i see.suck all the air out and the atmospheric pressure(the weight of the air on topof the veneer)is what holds it down.right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhoads56 Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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